[Springboard] Deep culture behind our debate on health care reform
Paula Philbrook
paula.philbrook at gmail.com
Thu Sep 3 07:58:59 CDT 2009
Thank you Jim!
2009/9/3 James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
> I can see, from this conversation, how much more is going on in the
> health care reform debate, and how much more is being added in, so it
> becomes an "argument about everything" . . . and this is among us, a quite
> small demographic of people, I think, with a shared history and a
> "transestablishment" (facilitative) perspective of brining people together
> for consensus, common vision, etc.
>
> In the project I have been helping with re: combining ICA's ToP and other
> methods for use in the Israeli - Palestinian conflict, one of the project
> partners talks about 3 levels of a conflict: conflict over resources,
> conflict over goals, conflict over identities. Their insight is that once a
> conflict becomes about identity, there is something non negotiable that
> enters in to the conversation. Another of the project partners talks about
> elements of the "deep culture" that fuel conflict -- a "cognitive pathology"
> and an "emotional pathology" (see below)
>
> -
> -
> -
>
> Deep Cultures often have elements which are counterproductive for
> peace. Two syndromes in particular can generally be identified. There is a
> cognitive pathology in Deep Culture which affects how a society thinks and
> analyses a conflict. There is also an Emotional pathology which strongly
> affect attitudes.
> -
>
> The Cognitive syndrome, DMA for short, is centered on Dichotomy
> (reducing the conflict to 2 conflict parties only)i<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=sDu_lsapiyQ.en.&am=!UqIxmxNMkDHpRd_gweYyQmOQwiCJ6kfazy-Le6F_#1237f893a6183b24_sdendnote1sym>,
> Manichaeism (where one side is “Good” and one side is “Evil”) and Armageddon
> (that there will be a final and inevitable battle in which Good decisively
> destroys Evil).
> -
>
> The Emotional syndrome, CGT for short, is centered on Chosenness (the
> belief that a group of people have been chosen by transcendental forces or
> history for a political mission), Glory (the myths of past and future glory,
> underscoring their Chosenness), and Trauma (the experience of past injuries
> and defeats, underscoring the need to pursue their Mission).
>
> i<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=sDu_lsapiyQ.en.&am=!UqIxmxNMkDHpRd_gweYyQmOQwiCJ6kfazy-Le6F_#1237f893a6183b24_sdendnote1anc>We
> reinforce this syndrome when we call the “Israeli – Palestinian” identities
> into the room
>
>
> Jim
>
> Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. G. K. Chesterton
>
> Jim Wiegel
> 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
> +1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/2/09, jonzondo at juno.com <jonzondo at juno.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: jonzondo at juno.com <jonzondo at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and
> Conservati ve
> To: oe at wedgeblade.net
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:15 PM
>
> 1)Most conservatives I know support Diebold voting machines. Some make
> money off of them. And in Washington State, there was conservative
> resistance to a paper trail.
> 2) The elections of 2000 and 2004 and the lack of interest in counting
> every vote.
> 3) Discussions with my conservative relatives.
> 4) "Illegal" Phone calls made in several states to my friends of different
> ethnicities giving false information about the 2008 election, all in an
> effort to reduce the number of people voting for Obama.
>
> I hope that all people are ready for fair clean elections. That will be a
> blessing.
>
> Jon Elizondo
>
>
> You've got to be kidding! Where could you possibly have come up with the
> idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open government?
> ____________________________________________________________
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> You've got to be kidding! Where could you possibly have come up with the
> idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open government?
> Part of the huge problem with Obama is that he promised transparency and
> hasn't practiced it. And can you possibly know about Acorn and think the
> Democrats are all about clean electins? Conservatives support everything on
> your list. They just don't support distortion and manipulation of all those
> issues.
>
> *Susan*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On
> Behalf Of *Dave Thomas
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:49 PM
> *To:* 'Order Ecumenical Community'
> *Subject:* [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and
> Conservative
>
> Learn more about Liberals and the types of Conservatives (Traditional
> Conservatives, Libertarians, Christian Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives)
> who oppose them at
> http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/05AboutLiberals.htm
>
>
>
> Also note our Liberal Priorities, which Conservatives consistently oppose:
>
> · Fair Clean Elections and Open Government
>
> · Fair Taxes and Competent Spending
>
> · Investment for Productivity
>
> · Quality Health, Education, Jobs, Income
>
> · Environmental Protection and Energy Independence
>
> · Security and Equal Rights
>
> · Justice and Peace Everywhere
>
> · International Cooperation and Leadership
>
>
>
> *Conservatives oppose all of these*<http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/20ConservativesOpposeOurPriorities.htm>
> Dave Thomas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On
> Behalf Of *ed feldmanis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:59 PM
> *To:* oe at wedgeblade.net
> *Subject:* [Oe List ...] What do we mean by a right? To Jim, Dave,et.al.
> re: Conservativism
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> The most eloquent modern day description that I have seen is in the book
> Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.
>
> I have to agree with Dave as far as his description goes. Here is where I
> found the problem, at least for me: Conservatives may give lip service to
> these values, but they intolerantly restrict the freedoms and opportunities
> they would offer people different from themselves, often valuing the freedom
> of businesses more than the freedom of individuals.
>
> I find that statement in general to be devastatingly true and possibly
> un-American. However, I don't agree that every conservative is merely giving
> lip service. My own impression is that Barry Goldwater was very sincere and
> specific in his book. At the point of writing the book, in my opinion, there
> was some sense in that folks still wanted to make America work for everybody
> and they thought they had more common ground than there is today.
>
> For a while it, the Goldwater book, was the standard of what a conservative
> was. Conservativism was tied to merit, learning, service, pay as you go
> spending, and the wide spread use of incentives before deciding to create an
> agency; and, by the way, there was some sense of what is called
> state-craft. If pushed beyond Goldwater to Teddy Roosevelt it was also tied
> to conservation. I think in my time this is as close to having a dynamic -
> conservativism- defined in some stability. (Notice some of the liberalism
> inherent in the above description.)
>
> Where I really disagree is where many people simply call the new crowd
> conservatives; for example, the crowd now in power and mostly Southerners
> and their business conspirators. The label, I think, in this case, is a cop
> out for the sake of convenience. In my mind, I can not get the label of
> conservative to stick on extremists or people who have neo-fascist ideas.
> These are the same people who called Goldwater a liberal. And they are the
> so-called conservatives of our day. I don't buy it, but the press and then
> everyone else seems to.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
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--
Paula
Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in
harmony.
Mahatma Gandhi
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