[Dialogue] Request

Tue Feb 8 01:45:26 EST 2005

Good Grief, George! --

These erudite, historical, scholarly conundrums and torturously 
serpentine and speculative etymological postulations in which you do 
manage to get yourself entangled! 

First, I shall grumpily opine that neither of the proffered definitions 
has--at best--but a remote, associative connection to our dearly beloved 
"transpodane".  It is quite true that "transpontine" refers to the other 
side of a bridge--a decently helpful and suggestive image, no doubt--and 
was sometimes used in Britain to mean the south side of the Thames. 

However, upon verifying your references (which you really /must/ begin 
to do!) and all linguistic similarities to the contrary notwithstanding, 
you will not find "transpodane" used anywhere in the vast archives of 
English language and literature to refer to the other side of the River 
Po.  Indeed, the perfectly fine word which is so honorably employed in 
this noble regard is the word "transpadane" ("Close, but no cigar!").  
I'm sure we all recall its importance in 18th century European history, 
but on the off chance that one of our memories may be a bit fuzzy on 
some of the intimate details, here it is, first in definition, then in 
its wider context:

Source: /Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)/

*Transpadane* \Trans"pa*dane`\, a. [L. transpadanus; trans across
   + Padus the Po.]
   Lying or being on the further side of the river Po with
   reference to Rome, that is, on the north side; -- opposed to
   cispadane.

-----------------------------

[In 1797 Napoleon Bonaparte created the Italian] *Cisalpine Republic* 
<http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574218/Cisalpine_Republic.html#p1> 
by uniting the Transpadane and Cispadane republics, which he had 
established (1796) N and S of the Po River. The new republic included 
the former duchies of Milan, Parma, and Modena, the legations of Bologna 
and Ferrara, and the Romagna. By the Treaty of Campo Formio (1797), 
Austria recognized the republic, to which were added the Venetian 
territories W of the Adige (including Bergamo and Brescia), the duchy of 
Mantua, and the formerly Swiss Valtellina. The republic was in fact 
subject to France, and its constitution was based on the French model. 
In 1799 the Austro-Russian armies occupied it, but Bonaparte recovered 
it in 1800. By the Treaty of Lunéville (1801) its nominal autonomy was 
restored. In 1802 it became the Italian Republic and in 1805, with the 
addition of Venetia, the Napoleonic kingdom of Italy. It was broken up 
by the Congress of Vienna 
<http://www.slider.com/Enc/XLink/Vienna-C.html> in 1815.

/The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia,/ 6th ed. Copyright © 2004, 
Columbia University Press.

------------------------------------

As to any purported connections between our exquisite and delectable 
word, "transpodane", and the Great Bard, such speculations must be 
declared utterly and egregiously specious or--in a word--arrant 
nonsense!  While WS created far more neologisms even than JWM, you will 
not find this word in any of his known and accepted texts.  To assure 
you of this fact, I invite your research of the most complete (Germanic, 
of course) Shakespearian glossary in existence, /viz./ --

http://www.william-shakespeare.de/english/shakespeare_glossary_s_to_z.htm

-----------------------------------

I trust that I have now demolished the idle speculations into which you 
have so sadly been misled, George, and that you emerge from these wild 
vagaries a sobered, wiser and better man.  For the next stage in our 
learned collegial dialogue, we must, I fear, await the arrival of the 
publication of the Comprehensive Concordance and Glossolalia of the 
Collected Writings of JWM--a task which I have no doubt that our 
redoubtable team of archival scholars, whose first edition of The Talks 
has only just seen the light of day, is even now hard at work in the 
process of developing. 

Until then, to coin a phrase, "this is a subject with which we must 
continue to struggle."

And next time, George--do be more careful what you ask for.

Gordon

** <http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761555746/Transpadane_Republic.html>

George R. Packard wrote:

>Thank you Nan,
> -- the river "Po" is what I remember as well, but had forgotten the
>geography. When I consulted Mr. Webster he only had "transpotine" and the
>river in question was the Thames and its bridges. Not finding the Italian
>reference I lost my nerve and settled for just the river reference.
>
>I just stopped to check again and interestingly definition #2 holds the
>cultural reference as well. It suggests the English use comes out of
>reference to overly exaggerated or melodramatic characters (beyond the
>common images) in the plays on the south side of London which is where the
>Globe theatre has been rebuilt about a block or two from its original site.
>Do you suppose Romeo and Juliet or the Merchant of Venice had transpodane in
>their genes or could have had anything to do with that? Maybe Gordon Harper
>would know.
>
>Thanks for keeping research centrum dynamics up to snuff and curiosity
>aroused.
>George
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On Behalf Of Nan Grow
>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:08 PM
>To: Colleague Dialogue
>Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Request
>
>
>"Transpodane", I believe, had to do with the "Po" River (Italy) and referred
>to that which was beyond our imagining, beyond the common thoughts of common
>people, the new in civilization.  JWM urged us to think and plan "Beyond the
>Po", or transpodanely.
>        Nan Grow
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "George R. Packard" <gpackard at ica-usa.org>
>To: "Colleague Dialogue" <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 3:16 PM
>Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Request
>
>
>  
>
>>"Transpodane" an old jargon joke -- one of our more arcane attempts to
>>generate a new word from an old one -- "Transpontine" -- defined as seeing
>>to the other side -- of the bridge -- specifically across the London
>>    
>>
>Bridge
>  
>
>>to the southern side. We used it to describe what might be associated with
>>universal thought, or grounded ontological thinking, or the ability to see
>>into another's position from your own relational commitment.
>>George
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On Behalf Of
>>ralexan934 at sbcglobal.net
>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 1:28 PM
>>To: Colleague Dialogue
>>Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Request
>>
>>
>>"transpodane"????
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "George R. Packard" <gpackard at ica-usa.org>
>>To: "Colleague Dialogue" <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:54 AM
>>Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Request
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I just attended a book signing of Jim Wallis of Sojourns Magazine and
>>>      
>>>
>Call
>  
>
>>>to Renewal Movement, who wrote the book God's Politics (NYTimes #5). As
>>>      
>>>
>I
>  
>
>>>went through the line and had my copy of his book signed I gave a copy
>>>      
>>>
>of
>  
>
>>>the new book, Bending History, to him. He had a twinge of recognition
>>>      
>>>
>when
>  
>
>>>I
>>>pointed to Matthews name and mentioned the Dresslers (Jolly Green Giant)
>>>whose house He babysat while he was at Trinity and they were on the west
>>>side.
>>>
>>>His presentation that night was on the importance of movements in
>>>      
>>>
>history
>  
>
>>>and they are attempting to treat this book tour as means of building the
>>>movemental base of the current justice movement and progressive
>>>      
>>>
>religious
>  
>
>>>action. He is clearly from the Evangelical camp, but "transpodane" in
>>>      
>>>
>his
>  
>
>>>thought.
>>>
>>>If your not already linked you might want to check out the Soujurns or
>>>Call
>>>to Renewal web sites: www.sojo.net Will get you to sojurns and hopefully
>>>      
>>>
>a
>  
>
>>>link to the list serve; For call to renewal it is
>>>http://www.calltorenewal.org/about_us/index.cfm/action/campaign.html
>>>Call to Renewal is a national network of churches, faith-based
>>>organizations, and individuals working to overcome poverty in America.
>>>
>>>George Packard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On Behalf Of Bill Bailey
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:03 PM
>>>To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
>>>Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>
>>>I want to "ditto" all that has been said about the book of JWM's talks
>>>      
>>>
>and
>  
>
>>>writings. They are great, and I plan to recommend the book to anyone who
>>>is
>>>on a journey of profound humanness.  G&P
>>>
>>>Bill Bailey
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Harry Wainwright
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:07 PM
>>>To: Colleague Dialogue
>>>Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>Bill and Colleagues,
>>>
>>>Try http://www.resurgencepublishing.com/
>>>
>>>Peace,
>>>Harry
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On Behalf Of William Alerding
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:25 PM
>>>To: Colleague Dialogue
>>>Subject: [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>How do I get a copy of the blue book -life of JWM??
>>>
>>>Bill Alerding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Dialogue mailing list
>>>Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
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>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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