[Dialogue] Request

JTresise@aol.com JTresise at aol.com
Tue Feb 8 02:46:43 EST 2005 

 
In a message dated 2/7/2005 10:46:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
gharper1 at mindspring.com writes:

Good  Grief, George! --

These erudite, historical, scholarly conundrums and  torturously 
serpentine and speculative etymological postulations in which  you do 
manage to get yourself entangled! 

First, I shall grumpily  opine that neither of the proffered definitions 
has--at best--but a  remote, associative connection to our dearly beloved 
"transpodane".   It is quite true that "transpontine" refers to the other 
side of a  bridge--a decently helpful and suggestive image, no doubt--and 
was  sometimes used in Britain to mean the south side of the Thames.  

However, upon verifying your references (which you really /must/ begin  
to do!) and all linguistic similarities to the contrary notwithstanding,  
you will not find "transpodane" used anywhere in the vast archives of  
English language and literature to refer to the other side of the River  
Po.  Indeed, the perfectly fine word which is so honorably employed  in 
this noble regard is the word "transpadane" ("Close, but no  cigar!").  
I'm sure we all recall its importance in 18th century  European history, 
but on the off chance that one of our memories may be a  bit fuzzy on 
some of the intimate details, here it is, first in  definition, then in 
its wider context:

Source: /Webster's Revised  Unabridged Dictionary (1913)/

*Transpadane* \Trans"pa*dane`\, a. [L.  transpadanus; trans across
+ Padus the Po.]
Lying or being on the further side of the river Po with
reference to Rome, that is, on the north side; -- opposed to
cispadane.

-----------------------------

[In 1797 Napoleon  Bonaparte created the Italian] *Cisalpine Republic*  
<http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574218/Cisalpine_Republic.html#p1>  
by uniting the Transpadane and Cispadane republics, which he had  
established (1796) N and S of the Po River. The new republic included  
the former duchies of Milan, Parma, and Modena, the legations of Bologna  
and Ferrara, and the Romagna. By the Treaty of Campo Formio (1797),  
Austria recognized the republic, to which were added the Venetian  
territories W of the Adige (including Bergamo and Brescia), the duchy of  
Mantua, and the formerly Swiss Valtellina. The republic was in fact  
subject to France, and its constitution was based on the French model.  
In 1799 the Austro-Russian armies occupied it, but Bonaparte recovered  
it in 1800. By the Treaty of Lunéville (1801) its nominal autonomy was  
restored. In 1802 it became the Italian Republic and in 1805, with the  
addition of Venetia, the Napoleonic kingdom of Italy. It was broken up  
by the Congress of Vienna  
<http://www.slider.com/Enc/XLink/Vienna-C.html> in 1815.

/The  Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia,/ 6th ed. Copyright © 2004, 
Columbia  University Press.

------------------------------------

As to any  purported connections between our exquisite and delectable 
word,  "transpodane", and the Great Bard, such speculations must be 
declared  utterly and egregiously specious or--in a word--arrant 
nonsense!   While WS created far more neologisms even than JWM, you will 
not find this  word in any of his known and accepted texts.  To assure 
you of this  fact, I invite your research of the most complete (Germanic, 
of course)  Shakespearian glossary in existence, /viz./  --

http://www.william-shakespeare.de/english/shakespeare_glossary_s_to_z.htm

-----------------------------------

I  trust that I have now demolished the idle speculations into which you 
have  so sadly been misled, George, and that you emerge from these wild 
vagaries  a sobered, wiser and better man.  For the next stage in our 
learned  collegial dialogue, we must, I fear, await the arrival of the 
publication  of the Comprehensive Concordance and Glossolalia of the 
Collected Writings  of JWM--a task which I have no doubt that our 
redoubtable team of archival  scholars, whose first edition of The Talks 
has only just seen the light of  day, is even now hard at work in the 
process of developing. 

Until  then, to coin a phrase, "this is a subject with which we must 
continue to  struggle."

And next time, George--do be more careful what you ask  for.

Gordon


**  <http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761555746/Transpadane_Republic.html>


George  R. Packard wrote:

>Thank you Nan,
> -- the river "Po" is what  I remember as well, but had forgotten the
>geography. When I consulted  Mr. Webster he only had "transpotine" and the
>river in question was the  Thames and its bridges. Not finding the Italian
>reference I lost my  nerve and settled for just the river reference.
>
>I just stopped  to check again and interestingly definition #2 holds the
>cultural  reference as well. It suggests the English use comes out of
>reference  to overly exaggerated or melodramatic characters (beyond the
>common  images) in the plays on the south side of London which is where  the
>Globe theatre has been rebuilt about a block or two from its  original site.
>Do you suppose Romeo and Juliet or the Merchant of  Venice had transpodane in
>their genes or could have had anything to do  with that? Maybe Gordon Harper
>would know.
>
>Thanks for  keeping research centrum dynamics up to snuff and  curiosity
>aroused.
>George
>
>-----Original  Message-----
>From:  Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On  Behalf Of Nan Grow
>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:08 PM
>To:  Colleague Dialogue
>Subject: Re: [Dialogue]  Request
>
>
>"Transpodane", I believe, had to do with the  "Po" River (Italy) and referred
>to that which was beyond our imagining,  beyond the common thoughts of common
>people, the new in  civilization.  JWM urged us to think and plan "Beyond the
>Po", or  transpodanely.
>        Nan Grow
>-----  Original Message -----
>From: "George R. Packard"  <gpackard at ica-usa.org>
>To: "Colleague Dialogue"  <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 3:16  PM
>Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Request
>
>
>   
>
>>"Transpodane" an old jargon joke -- one of our more arcane  attempts to
>>generate a new word from an old one -- "Transpontine"  -- defined as seeing
>>to the other side -- of the bridge --  specifically across the London
>>     
>>
>Bridge
>  
>
>>to the southern  side. We used it to describe what might be associated  with
>>universal thought, or grounded ontological thinking, or the  ability to see
>>into another's position from your own relational  commitment.
>>George
>>
>>-----Original  Message-----
>>From:  Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On  Behalf Of
>>ralexan934 at sbcglobal.net
>>Sent: Monday,  February 07, 2005 1:28 PM
>>To: Colleague  Dialogue
>>Subject: Re: [Dialogue]  Request
>>
>>
>>"transpodane"????
>>
>>
>>-----  Original Message -----
>>From: "George R. Packard"  <gpackard at ica-usa.org>
>>To: "Colleague Dialogue"  <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005  11:54 AM
>>Subject: RE: [Dialogue]  Request
>>
>>
>>     
>>
>>>I just attended a book signing of Jim Wallis of  Sojourns Magazine and
>>>       
>>>
>Call
>  
>
>>>to Renewal  Movement, who wrote the book God's Politics (NYTimes #5).  As
>>>      
>>>
>I
>   
>
>>>went through the line and had my copy of his book  signed I gave a copy
>>>       
>>>
>of
>  
>
>>>the new book,  Bending History, to him. He had a twinge of recognition
>>>   
>>>
>when
>   
>
>>>I
>>>pointed to Matthews name and  mentioned the Dresslers (Jolly Green Giant)
>>>whose house He  babysat while he was at Trinity and they were on the  west
>>>side.
>>>
>>>His presentation that  night was on the importance of movements in
>>>     
>>>
>history
>   
>
>>>and they are attempting to treat this book tour as  means of building the
>>>movemental base of the current justice  movement and progressive
>>>       
>>>
>religious
>   
>
>>>action. He is clearly from the Evangelical camp, but  "transpodane" in
>>>       
>>>
>his
>   
>
>>>thought.
>>>
>>>If your not  already linked you might want to check out the Soujurns  or
>>>Call
>>>to Renewal web sites: www.sojo.net Will  get you to sojurns and hopefully
>>>       
>>>
>a
>  
>
>>>link to the  list serve; For call to renewal it  is
>>>http://www.calltorenewal.org/about_us/index.cfm/action/campaign.html
>>>Call  to Renewal is a national network of churches,  faith-based
>>>organizations, and individuals working to overcome  poverty in America.
>>>
>>>George  Packard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original  Message-----
>>>From:  Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On  Behalf Of Bill Bailey
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:03  PM
>>>To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
>>>Subject: RE:  [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>
>>>I want to  "ditto" all that has been said about the book of JWM's  talks
>>>       
>>>
>and
>  
>
>>>writings.  They are great, and I plan to recommend the book to anyone  who
>>>is
>>>on a journey of profound humanness.   G&P
>>>
>>>Bill  Bailey
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original  Message-----
>>>From:  Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]  On Behalf Of Harry Wainwright
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005  2:07 PM
>>>To: Colleague Dialogue
>>>Subject: RE:  [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>Bill and  Colleagues,
>>>
>>>Try  http://www.resurgencepublishing.com/
>>>
>>>Peace,
>>>Harry
>>>
>>>-----Original  Message-----
>>>From:  Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>>>[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net]On  Behalf Of William Alerding
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005  6:25 PM
>>>To: Colleague Dialogue
>>>Subject:  [Dialogue] Request
>>>
>>>How do I get a copy of the  blue book -life of JWM??
>>>
>>>Bill  Alerding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Dialogue  mailing  list
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>
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>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dialogue  mailing  list
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dialogue  mailing  list
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>
>
>   
>
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Was that Gordon?  What's he say?  What'd he say?
 
John Tresise

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