[Dialogue] The End of My Serious Objection

[Karl Hess]

Margaret / Jim,

I'm still in Cleveland, working on what cripples kids (mostly 
social), which I call wholesale pediatrics.

Jim,  I got your piece a few days ago.  I'm just not interested in 
metaphysical speculation.  I'm focused on the 1000 kids who die every 
hour from US policies.  Perhaps my stage of life focuses the mind.

Margaret,  I respect all religions, certainly including paganism, and 
also non-religions.  Sorry I didn't say this a couple of posts ago. 
What I don't respect is pretending that one believes one thing and 
really believes another.  There is so much bullshit (have you seen 
the Frankfurt paper on this?) from ideologues of left and right these 
days that I'm getting quite testy.  My pastor who I like very much 
preaches a god who so far as I can tell most resembles a cosmic 
Mister Rogers.  She likes to use traditional Christian terminology 
but it apparently means something quite different.  I'm getting to be 
quite a cognitive minority.

Did the distinction between God (the creator, etc.) and Christianity 
(the religion) make sense?

This all followed from an incidental comment I made about Jim 
Rippey's comment "For those of the evangelical bent, there is always 
only one true way."  My comment would have been better if I had said 
for any true believer there is only one true way.  If one is a true 
believer relativist, that is the one and only true way.  The basic 
characteristic of a fundamentalist, I believe, is certainty that you 
are right (and they are wrong).  I have a brother who is a 
fundamentalist atheist.

Karl

>Hi, Margaret, how are you?  Hi everyone else . . .  Hi, Karl, still 
>in Cleveland?
>
>I only got about half of the emails in this conversation . . . and I 
>sent something earlier and think it never got delivered . .  . Of 
>course, it could as well be that what I said was so . . . (fill in 
>adjective as appropriate)  . ..
>
>Jim Wiegel
>
>aiseayew <aiseayew at iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>Dear Karl,
>
>I am sorry that you apparently cannot hear or respond to my concern. I
>accept that. It never occurred to me (another illusion burst) that even the
>attempt to dialogue with a respect for paganism would be a threat to anyone
>in this group. I deeply appreciate the responses of those who could hear
>and even pursued new connections. Respect provides an interesting
>counter-balance to condescension.
>
>Be well, Margaret
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Karl Hess"
>To: "Colleague Dialogue"
>Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:08 PM
>Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Seious Objections
>
>
>>  Margaret,
>>
>>  Included in the idea of Christian context as I used it is the idea that
>>  God is distinct from christianity. Augustine said that there are as many
>>  wolves in the church as there are sheep outside it, distinguishing between
>>  God's perspective and ours.
>>
>>  Wm. Placher's "Domestication of Transcendence" is a good introduction to
>>  the transformation of theology by modernity. Luther and Calvin may have
>>  known something after all. Is it possible?
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>  Karl
>>
>>>Karl,
>>>
>>>I don't think a "Christian context" has anything in particular to do with
>>>my basic objection, which is to equating idolatry with paganism.
>>>
>>>I went to the suggested website and enjoyed the great quotes and excerpts,
>>>but they were about idolatry--period. I have no argument with your
>>>general definition of idolatry in Christian theology.
>>>
>>>In your illustration from the Egyptian sociologist, I am not sure whether
>>>you are describing a veneer of formal religion
>>>over ancient religions or a veneer of ancient religion over formal
>>>religions. In either case I don't think this rises to the level of
>>>idolatry.
>>>
>>>That 70% of Republicans say we should fight for our country whether it is
>>>right or wrong comes to me as a clear illustration of idolatry, making the
>>>nation god or the final reality before which one stands. I do not see any
>>>relationship of that stance to paganism. (In fact, I suspect most pagans
>  >>would be apalled to think such a stance had anything to do with their
>>>belief "system".) As long as you are not equating Muslim or Buddhist or,
>>>or, or, with idolatry, I can't discern any reason to equate paganism with
>>>idolatry. If, on the other hand, all belief systems other than
>>>Christianity are to be equated with idolatry, I would suggest that
>>>christianity itself has become the god before which the knee is being
>>>bent, an idolatry supreme.
>>>
>>>Margaret
>>>
>>
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>
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>Ol' Jim Wiegel
>401 North Beverly Way   Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>623-936-8671   jfwiegel at yahoo.com
>
>Every language is an old-growth forest of the mind, a watershed of 
>thought, an ecosystem of spiritual possibilities.  Wade Davis
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