[Dialogue] Paganism and RSI

[Charles or Doris Hahn]

Hi Margaret, et al

I do not review our email on a daily basis, so I kind
of stumbled into the dialogue you must have initiated.
I must confess I was somewhat amazed at all the
furore.  It seemed like the proverbial medieval
theologians splitting hairs.

I am not familiar with any of the four authors you
mention.  Perhaps I should be.  All this comes down to
the main thrust of your comments today.  What you
wrote makes faithful sense to me in these transitional
times.  In fact it sparked with some of my own
rumminations.  Thank you much.  As they said in Fifth
City, "Keep on 'truckin, girl'".

Charles Hahn

--- aiseayew <aiseayew at iowatelecom.net> wrote:

> Dear Karen,
> 
> You asked, "please say some words about paganism,
> and how it differs from 
> the message of RS1, if it does."
> 
> Obviously the answer is no and yes and yes and no.
> 
> I feel unqualified to even respond to your question
> from the perspective of 
> not having participated in any of the formal
> structures of any of the four 
> groupings of paganism Harry provided in his note.  I
> do know that we hosted 
> a Pagan conference at the ICA building for several
> years when I was working 
> with the Conference Center (one of those groups we
> always, only, identified 
> by their initials in the client listings).  Since it
> was not my tendency to 
> be too wierded out by them, I usually got the task
> of facilitating the 
> weekend and felt rather honored by being referred to
> by many of the 
> participants as a "green witch" after several years.
> 
> On another level deeply within my experience, when I
> showed up at RSI and 
> was asked what grounded me in history, I said, "I am
> an Iowa farm girl." 
> Naturally some one of the pedagogues felt compelled
> to argue with me that 
> that was not an adequate articulation of grounding
> in history and I was 
> compelled to argue that he obviously didn't
> understand grounding.  Death and 
> resurrection are the very stuff of life when you
> grow up on a farm. 
> Choosing to give your life for something is almost a
> no-brainer.  That seed 
> in the ground sits and waits for the moisture
> sufficient that when it 
> absorbs enough it bursts itself open (dies dead) to
> send forth a shoot into 
> the unknown.  Only with grace does the plant develop
> and get pollinated and 
> produce (a flower, an ear of corn, whatever). 
> Thinking of that succulent 
> ear of sweet corn, when the hand reaches into the
> plant and tears it away 
> from the stem a radical teminus has been put upon
> the energy flow. 
> Redirection is the only option and the stalk dries
> up and falls over and 
> disintegrates back into the soil as bedding for
> another seed. (Sorry, but 
> this stuff is just inherently sexy.)  Meanwhile, the
> one who eats that 
> sweet, sweet corn takes a chunk of the energy in yet
> another direction. 
> >From the farm girl perspective, that energy goes
> directly into the community 
> of faith that sustains those with sufficient
> gumption that they are willing 
> to trust another season, in spite of what they know
> of the perils and 
> possibilities.  Choosing death, over and over again,
> is the only path to 
> life.
> 
> The structures of the institutional church seem to
> have always sanitized 
> this process.  You don't get dirt under your nails. 
> You only participate 
> vicariously in the crucifixtion.  You don't feel
> guilty about causing death. 
> The resurrection is magic that happens, not a
> painful yet natural outcome of 
> the required death.  In RSI, when people talked
> about looking at the stuff 
> of life and taking a relationship to that to define
> theological terms such 
> as God, Christ, Holy Spirit and Church, I was more
> excited that I can even 
> articulate.  Since arguments with my minister during
> confirmation classes, I 
> have always wanted these things to come together.  I
> can't say that 
> structurally we did a whole lot better than the
> institutional church.  I 
> can't say whether or not the structures of
> paganism's modern manifestations 
> do any better.  Many participants seem to have gone
> off some "other" deep 
> end.  They do at least know the cycles of the moon
> and seasons and 
> understand something about their relationship to
> life and final reality.  I 
> feel like that deserves my respect.  At least enough
> that I don't equate 
> those who self-identify with idolatry.  My sense is
> that in basing their 
> belief system on nature (whether it be in the form
> of aboriginal mythologies 
> or focussing on the divine feminine) they are
> playing with a full deck.  At 
> least as full as the one chosen by the institutional
> church.
> 
> There have been many occassions on which my way of
> knowing has been put down 
> by my colleagues.  There are times when I feel like
> someone telling me I 
> should read something is about the equivalent of
> them telling me I should at 
> least try to get smart.  I guess I am not
> particularly tolerant of that 
> treatment anymore, so I will ask your forgiveness in
> advance of mentioning 
> that resources that have been important to me
> include some of the works of 
> Sallie McFague, Diarmuid O'Murchu, Lorna Green and,
> of course, Elaine 
> Pagels.  The first three have worked to integrate
> spirituality and ecology 
> (and Christianity) and Elaine has worked with the
> influence of  and 
> potential within the historical gnostic seeds in
> christianity.  I mention 
> them as writers that I don't hear discussed in our
> dialogue and I have a 
> hard time getting excited about many that do, so I
> feel like I am still 
> (after all these years) out in left field.  It's
> okay.  There is grass and 
> clover and honey bees out here in left field, and of
> course left field is in 
> Iowa, which everyone knows is heaven.  O'Murchu's
> Quantum Theology is among 
> my most dogeared volumes.  Paganism, struggling from
> centuries of 
> discrimination, is probably more likely to dismiss
> the rigidity of RSI these 
> days than any new attempt to articulate RSI would be
> to dismiss paganism. I 
> am excited that we are living in a time of growing
> articulation of the 
> interconnections.  As uncomfortable as it may be, I
> can't make connections 
> if I dismiss things out of hand.  So you have more
> than you ever wanted to 
> know about where I am (still) coming from.  Margaret
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>