[Dialogue] "One never know, do one?"

Tue Jul 12 15:01:08 EDT 2005

Well said, Bill. I agree, but also think we have to
work at the macro level--both ends and probably the
middle. Work at the micro and keep the context big.

A familiar slogan: All the world belongs to all the
people. I like something like "The world belongs to
its people (and birds and dogs and cats and elephants
and wildflowers and microbes)." Slogans are important,
but they best touch society's contradictions and the
spirit. If slogans are simply against something or
other, they are captive of whatever it is they are
against.  

"It is to freedom we are called...."

Doris Hahn

--- Bill Schlesinger <pvida at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Democracy isn't our defining focus.  Representative
> Democracy is the playing
> field in which we try to shape our common vision.  
> 
> The basic thrust of pro-choice is that women need to
> be in control of their
> bodies, and not 'objects' for either sex or child
> bearing.  Sex and child
> bearing are decisions that they want to be able to
> make without social or
> legal restraint.
> 
> The thrust of the gay, lesbian and bi-sexual
> movement is that the ability to
> make and sustain commitments, including partnering
> and child rearing, should
> not be restricted to one gender orientation.
> 
> The thrust of those who are concerned about the poor
> and the underserved is
> that the commitment of the entire society -- not
> just the 'volunteers' -- is
> necessary for the care of all and the humane base
> for a society of growth
> and possibility.  That does not contradict the
> charge of 'welfare-ism' in
> the practice of many programs, but sustains it and
> asks that such care be
> done in ways that value people's potential and evoke
> more, not less,
> responsibility from all people.
> 
> A similar issue underlies labor and immigration
> folk:  Social and economic
> designs are made for human beings to grow and
> develop, not to be objects of
> manipulation or a hypocritical use-and-throw-away
> approach.
> 
> So:  
> Responsibility means choice; Choice means
> responsibility.  
> Laws to fit people, not people to fit laws.  
> Government is how we all make decisions for all of
> us.  
> Shape a future for all of us.  
> Choice means freedom; Freedom means choice.  
> Use things, love people or love things and use
> people.  
> (Reminds me of the old 'Want peace?  Work for
> Justice!" line)
> Every human being counts, and should.
> 
> The place to start, I'm convinced, is local --
> precincts, city and county,
> United Way and school board decisions. We need to
> figure out how to do it --
> health care, housing, education -- from the bottom
> up.  We need to use the
> models and the methods in the give and take of local
> decision-making to
> shape decisions about how taxes are used and federal
> dollars applied.  Then
> we need to move up the ladder with a base of
> demonstrated competence.  
> 
> I don't think we're going to solve a divisive,
> polarized situation by
> pushing the vote on one candidate or another.  I
> appreciate those who've
> chosen this direction, respect them and work to
> support them.  But our
> skills lie in a different area, and we need a
> different -- dare I use the
> word -- paradigm or image that isn't filled with
> jargon but with concrete
> experience.
> 
> FWIW.
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Schlesinger
> Project Vida
> 3607 Rivera Ave
> El Paso, TX 79905
> (915) 533-7057 x 207
> (915) 490-6148 mobile
> (915) 533-7158 fax
> pvida at sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
> [mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
> Of David & Lin Zahrt
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 9:05 AM
> To: Colleague Dialogue
> Subject: RE: [Dialogue] "One never know, do one?"
> 
> How many more 'slogans' that would be wake-up calls?
> 
> Try Democracy, not Theocracy
> 
> DZ
> >I agree that we need to build common images and get
> our leaders to express
> >them often.  The Republicans have done this ever
> since Reagan's "The
> >government is the problem.  Less government.  Less
> taxes.  Less
> regulations.
> >
> >Here are some examples from my recently published
> letter to a newspaper:
> >"Stop envirocide. Restore budgetary sanity. No
> unfair taxes. Stop crony
> >corruption. Compete economically, not militarily.
> Medicare for all. Privacy
> >for people, not government. Leave no person
> behind".  These need supporting
> >detail, analysis of their meaning and responses
> they might produce, their
> >uses, etc.  Dave Thomas
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
> >[mailto:Dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
> Of Bill Schlesinger
> >Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 6:08 AM
> >To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
> >Subject: RE: [Dialogue] "One never know, do one?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Jim said, "Nevertheless, Bush is over extended. 
> Public opinion is shifting
> >against him some.  But the faithful are still
> cheering him on.  What we
> need
> >is to find equally skillful ways to counteract his
> demagoguery and
> encourage
> >thougtful dissent."
> >
> >FWIW those who would counteract the current focus
> on individualism,
> >self-protection and 'traditional social values'
> have no consistent image
> >pulling them together beyond opposition.  There are
> those who focus on the
> >social compact of mutual responsibility, those who
> focus on their personal
> >reluctance to be part of the military and security
> costs, and those who
> want
> >more individual freedom in social choices than they
> see in the
> >administration.  Those are the primary focus groups
> I see.  Their own
> >internal opposition becomes clear when Jim Wallis
> is followed by the NOW
> >folk who argue against his vision as well as the
> conservative evangelicals.
> >
> >This dis-array of alternative consensus models
> leaves the still-cohesive
> >stream supporting the administration with its
> strength intact.  There may
> be
> >some internal frictions (specifically around
> Gonzales and immigration), but
> >those are relatively minor in the face of the lack
> of an alternative
> >consensus.
> >
> >We need to rebuild common images -- and that's even
> hard on this listserve.
> >
> >Bill Schlesinger
> >Project Vida
> >3607 Rivera Ave
> >El Paso, TX 79905
> >(915) 533-7057 x 207
> >(915) 490-6148 mobile
> >(915) 533-7158 fax
> >pvida at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Dialogue mailing list
> >Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>
>http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Dialogue mailing list
> >Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>
>http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
> 
=== message truncated ===