[Dialogue] Wilber & Rove

[W. J.]

Apparently I wasn't far off the mark in suggesting a  connection with Karl Rove. Here it is:

excerpt from an interview with Ken Wilber in the spring 2004 issue of Elephant magazine:
ELE: Nothing from [President] Bush and [Vice President] Cheney yet?!
WILBER: Well now, hold onto your hat... Karl Rove has read my stuff extensively.
ELE: I believe that..! Amazing.
WILBER: He received a two-hour presentation on the Integral Approach. Of course George Bush doesn’t read, but his main advisor [Rove] does. He (for better or for worse) has used my work to attempt to make even their stuff a little more integral. Now they don’t succeed, I don’t have to tell you, but smart people get onto this fairly quickly. Jeb Bush, who does read, uses Brief History of Everything in the Florida Values [program]. What we’re trying to get them to do evolve even higher. It’s sort of a crude way to put it, but many conservatives tend to be stuck at a... how can we put this charitably... a somewhat lower level...
ELE: Dualistic? Good/Bad?
WILBER: But even the fact that conservatives are interested shows just how relevant an integral approach can be in today’s world.

Marshall



----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Wegner <twegner at swbell.net>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 5:02:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Wilber


Hi Marshall! I really appreciated your posting at 

http://twiki.wedgeblade.net/bin/view.cgi/Main/TransformationHappens

Thanks! 

Marshall Jones wrote:

> Feeling a lot older and grumpier these days,

I'm definitely older, though I'd like to thing I'm more mellow these 
days. <smile!>

> I don't want to waste any energy debating various POV concerning
> Wilber

Agreed. Neither do I. I don't think the discussion we are having here 
is debating.

> let alone read all his stuff myself.

I have a book about WIlber written by someone else that's not too 
bad, but I'm sad to say there's no substitute for reading him 
directly. So I can't help you there. I don't know any short cut. Even 
the class I led was not a substitute from reading original sources. 
And I have to say Wilber's not for everyone.

> Maybe we should have a corporate reading research 
> project and get it all out there. 

When I was leading my class on Wilber I kept looking for key 
paragraphs and summaries that would permit quickly teaching a book, 
as I have often done with various movement studies and collegia, but 
found it difficult because his writing is so rich.

> My big clue was in his defensive rhetorical stlyle and shockingly 
> intemperate language in http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/46. A 
> revolutionary(1) doesn't get drawn in to responding to criticism; 
> and (2) stands in the comprehensive and doesn't get defensive, 'cause 
> when you get defensive, you're defending some reductionism. 

You are right about Wilber's defensive rhetorical stlyle in that blog 
entry (as I said before), and you are probably right that he is no 
revolutionary. On the other hand, if I only read non-defensive 
revolutionaries, I'd have very little to read <grin!>

> So I would expect Wilber to walk the talk if he claims some kinda 
> evolved consciousness...

I have read literally thousands of pages of Ken WIlber's work and 
never once read any claim on his part that he personally has 
consiousness more evolved than anyone else's. On the other hand, he 
does give many accounts of what evolved consiousness is like. <grin!>

On a more serious note, his general approach to levels of 
consiousness is "include and transcend", so I'm guessing he would say 
that just because you meditate and are exploring higher levels does 
not exempt you from ordinary emotions or imbalances at the lower 
levels.

Tim Wegner

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