[Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs

[Jim Baumbach]

John, maybe both you and Margaret missed some point in Spong's essay as 
well as Margaret's strong response to the phrase Spong used.  I had a 
similar response as Jim did when I read Margaret's letter.  Her 
abhorrence of the phrase "...wrong place at the wrong time,"  would 
imply that she would be more satisfied with the opposite statement, 
"...right place at the right time."  I can't say for sure that is what 
Margaret had in mind but I also revolt at the notion that somehow God 
guided the hapless victims into the paths of those fatal bullets.  And 
it gets even worse to imply that the victims (if one can actually use 
that term in this discourse) were to blame for their stupidity in 
deciding to be there. The universe that I happen to live in is one where 
bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.  
There is nothing supernatural in this observation nor does it in any way 
diminish ultimate trustworthiness in the unknown unknown.  It is simply 
the way life is and the way it is is that sometimes we get crushed in 
accidents where we happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Jim Baumbach


John Cock wrote:
> Jim, could you have missed Margaret's point? ~John
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Jim Rippey
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:54 PM
> *To:* 'Colleague Dialogue'
> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs
>
> I guess I am a heretic in Margaret's eyes.  If God-given free will 
> means anything, then if a sick man chooses to gun down 30 some people, 
> I cannot see how it diminishes God to say that "they happened to be at 
> the wrong place at the wrong time."   I simply can't believe such 
> events are all part of "God's good plan." However, I do respect 
> Margaret's nerve/chutzpah in stating her deep faith, though I don't 
> share it.   And I applaud her sensitivity and humility in facing 
> overabundance when there is so much hunger and poverty in the world. 
>  I believe I am called to do what I can to ameliorate such conditions, 
> though, too often, "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."   
>
>  
>
> Jim Rippey, Bellevue, NE 
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Margaret Helen 
> Aiseayew
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:18 AM
> *To:* Colleague Dialogue
> *Cc:* Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs
>
>  
>
> I deeply appreciate the Spong postings, but was so aghast at one 
> comment in this last one that I felt compelled to go out on the web 
> and write to Spong himself.  After a bit a time passed (I've been 
> working on my sermon for Sunday and the scripture is Saul's 
> transformation) I felt like I should post to the whole list my note.
>
>  
>
> Dear Rev. Spong,
> I get and read many of your sermons, but was utterly dismayed in your 
> reflections on the VPI tragedy. You used a phrase I have come to 
> abhor, "in the wrong place at the wrong time." I sincerely hope to not 
> seem simplistic, but over the last sixty years as my faith has grown, 
> I have come to believe that this is not possible. It is a part of 
> being participant in the vast mystery that is my God. I do not know, 
> nor can I understand the why and wherefore of things. I can know that 
> I am mortal, and give thanks. I can understand that prayer will not 
> necessarily change that, and give thanks. I can move about the world 
> in utter insecurity (teacing adult Christian education in 34 
> countries) and face down machine guns and feel "lucky" to come home, 
> and give thanks. I can suffer panic attacks in the cereal aisle of my 
> local grocery because I am so overwhelmed by the abundance there, that 
> is so lacking in so many places of world and not understand how I have 
> the priviledge, demand or option to confront the horror of our 
> consumption, and give thanks. But in no circumstance does my faith, my 
> belief in the ultimate trustworthiness of the unknown unknown, give me 
> permission to say I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. To 
> me that is wrong headed and diminishes God to a rational 
> understandability that would be the ultimate horror.
>
> Just a thought from someone who appreciates you and yours. (in full 
> awareness of the awesome audacity and sheer nerve/hutzpah of saying so)
> Grace and Peace be unto you,
> Margaret
>
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