[Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs: All of history conspired

Sat Apr 21 18:32:16 EDT 2007

Remember the phrase,
    all of history conspired  all of history conspired


On 4/21/07, Jim Baumbach <wtw0bl at new.rr.com> wrote:
>
> John, maybe both you and Margaret missed some point in Spong's essay as
> well as Margaret's strong response to the phrase Spong used.  I had a
> similar response as Jim did when I read Margaret's letter.  Her abhorrence
> of the phrase "...wrong place at the wrong time,"  would imply that she
> would be more satisfied with the opposite statement, "...right place at the
> right time."  I can't say for sure that is what Margaret had in mind but I
> also revolt at the notion that somehow God guided the hapless victims into
> the paths of those fatal bullets.  And it gets even worse to imply that the
> victims (if one can actually use that term in this discourse) were to blame
> for their stupidity in deciding to be there. The universe that I happen to
> live in is one where bad things happen to good people and good things happen
> to bad people.  There is nothing supernatural in this observation nor does
> it in any way diminish ultimate trustworthiness in the unknown unknown.  It
> is simply the way life is and the way it is is that sometimes we get crushed
> in accidents where we happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>
> Jim Baumbach
>
>
> John Cock wrote:
>
>  Jim, could you have missed Margaret's point? ~John
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [
> mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net <dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net>]
> *On Behalf Of *Jim Rippey
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:54 PM
> *To:* 'Colleague Dialogue'
> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs
>
>
>
> I guess I am a heretic in Margaret's eyes.  If God-given free will means
> anything, then if a sick man chooses to gun down 30 some people, I cannot
> see how it diminishes God to say that "they happened to be at the wrong
> place at the wrong time."   I simply can't believe such events are all part
> of "God's good plan." However, I do respect Margaret's nerve/chutzpah in
> stating her deep faith, though I don't share it.   And I applaud her
> sensitivity and humility in facing overabundance when there is so much
> hunger and poverty in the world.  I believe I am called to do what I can to
> ameliorate such conditions, though, too often, "the spirit is willing but
> the flesh is weak."
>
>
>
> Jim Rippey, Bellevue, NE
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [
> mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net <dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net>]
> *On Behalf Of *Margaret Helen Aiseayew
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:18 AM
> *To:* Colleague Dialogue
> *Cc:* Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs
>
>
>
> I deeply appreciate the Spong postings, but was so aghast at one comment
> in this last one that I felt compelled to go out on the web and write to
> Spong himself.  After a bit a time passed (I've been working on my sermon
> for Sunday and the scripture is Saul's transformation) I felt like I should
> post to the whole list my note.
>
>
>
> Dear Rev. Spong,
> I get and read many of your sermons, but was utterly dismayed in your
> reflections on the VPI tragedy. You used a phrase I have come to abhor, "in
> the wrong place at the wrong time." I sincerely hope to not seem simplistic,
> but over the last sixty years as my faith has grown, I have come to believe
> that this is not possible. It is a part of being participant in the vast
> mystery that is my God. I do not know, nor can I understand the why and
> wherefore of things. I can know that I am mortal, and give thanks. I can
> understand that prayer will not necessarily change that, and give thanks. I
> can move about the world in utter insecurity (teacing adult Christian
> education in 34 countries) and face down machine guns and feel "lucky" to
> come home, and give thanks. I can suffer panic attacks in the cereal aisle
> of my local grocery because I am so overwhelmed by the abundance there, that
> is so lacking in so many places of world and not understand how I have the
> priviledge, demand or option to confront the horror of our consumption, and
> give thanks. But in no circumstance does my faith, my belief in the ultimate
> trustworthiness of the unknown unknown, give me permission to say I have
> been in the wrong place at the wrong time. To me that is wrong headed and
> diminishes God to a rational understandability that would be the ultimate
> horror.
>
> Just a thought from someone who appreciates you and yours. (in full
> awareness of the awesome audacity and sheer nerve/hutzpah of saying so)
> Grace and Peace be unto you,
> Margaret
>
> ------------------------------
>
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-- 
Paula
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