[Dialogue] words

Sat Apr 21 19:33:45 EDT 2007

This is a word:

    life is good sometimes>my life is received sometimes>the past is
approved sometimes>the future is open sometimes

I would say this is the popular word, and I confess I operate out of this
word more often than not. 

But we know there is another word, and I take it that is the word Margaret
was speaking from, which says 

    all -- including any place or situation -- is good>my life>the past,
future -- yea, all time -- are good. 

Or as we used to say in Other World lectures: 

    any time, any place, any condition, and all relationships are right,
perfect, and whole (or something like that).

I confess that this other word does not make sense most of the time;
therefore, it's an outlandish, even absurd, word.

    Jesus, Paul, Bonhoeffer, Gandhi, and a crimson line lived out of this
strange word, even in prison and at execution.

This is what I heard Margaret saying. I don't even remember what Spong was
saying, I must admit, and I don't know him as well as I do Margaret.

John

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From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jim Baumbach
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:20 PM
To: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs

John, maybe both you and Margaret missed some point in Spong's essay as well
as Margaret's strong response to the phrase Spong used.  I had a similar
response as Jim did when I read Margaret's letter.  Her abhorrence of the
phrase "...wrong place at the wrong time,"  would imply that she would be
more satisfied with the opposite statement, "...right place at the right
time."  I can't say for sure that is what Margaret had in mind but I also
revolt at the notion that somehow God guided the hapless victims into the
paths of those fatal bullets.  And it gets even worse to imply that the
victims (if one can actually use that term in this discourse) were to blame
for their stupidity in deciding to be there. The universe that I happen to
live in is one where bad things happen to good people and good things happen
to bad people.  There is nothing supernatural in this observation nor does
it in any way diminish ultimate trustworthiness in the unknown unknown.  It
is simply the way life is and the way it is is that sometimes we get crushed
in accidents where we happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Jim Baumbach

John Cock wrote: 

Jim, could you have missed Margaret's point? ~John

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jim Rippey
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:54 PM
To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs

I guess I am a heretic in Margaret's eyes.  If God-given free will means
anything, then if a sick man chooses to gun down 30 some people, I cannot
see how it diminishes God to say that "they happened to be at the wrong
place at the wrong time."   I simply can't believe such events are all part
of "God's good plan." However, I do respect Margaret's nerve/chutzpah in
stating her deep faith, though I don't share it.   And I applaud her
sensitivity and humility in facing overabundance when there is so much
hunger and poverty in the world.  I believe I am called to do what I can to
ameliorate such conditions, though, too often, "the spirit is willing but
the flesh is weak."   

Jim Rippey, Bellevue, NE  

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Margaret Helen
Aiseayew
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:18 AM
To: Colleague Dialogue
Cc: Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong on Virginia Tech and RC Pedophiliacs

I deeply appreciate the Spong postings, but was so aghast at one comment in
this last one that I felt compelled to go out on the web and write to Spong
himself.  After a bit a time passed (I've been working on my sermon for
Sunday and the scripture is Saul's transformation) I felt like I should post
to the whole list my note.

Dear Rev. Spong,
I get and read many of your sermons, but was utterly dismayed in your
reflections on the VPI tragedy. You used a phrase I have come to abhor, "in
the wrong place at the wrong time." I sincerely hope to not seem simplistic,
but over the last sixty years as my faith has grown, I have come to believe
that this is not possible. It is a part of being participant in the vast
mystery that is my God. I do not know, nor can I understand the why and
wherefore of things. I can know that I am mortal, and give thanks. I can
understand that prayer will not necessarily change that, and give thanks. I
can move about the world in utter insecurity (teacing adult Christian
education in 34 countries) and face down machine guns and feel "lucky" to
come home, and give thanks. I can suffer panic attacks in the cereal aisle
of my local grocery because I am so overwhelmed by the abundance there, that
is so lacking in so many places of world and not understand how I have the
priviledge, demand or option to confront the horror of our consumption, and
give thanks. But in no circumstance does my faith, my belief in the ultimate
trustworthiness of the unknown unknown, give me permission to say I have
been in the wrong place at the wrong time. To me that is wrong headed and
diminishes God to a rational understandability that would be the ultimate
horror.

Just a thought from someone who appreciates you and yours. (in full
awareness of the awesome audacity and sheer nerve/hutzpah of saying so)
Grace and Peace be unto you,
Margaret

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