[Dialogue] Perverted Vision, Perverted Ethics

Thu Aug 23 16:56:42 EDT 2007

Having been compared to Karl Rove, I am very aware that there was (and is) a major difference between Us and Them. The Order:Ecumenical wasn't really about screwing the world and the environment for the short term gain of a few corporate capitalists.

  Despite the reality of 'unintended consequences', the process of discerning and articulating a vision of global inclusion and participation, and rolling out an army of volunteers to facilitate a process of comprehensive socio-economic village development can't be compared to the invasion of the Bushies.

  But it was an 'invasion' by an 'elite' with a 'vision' and a 'model' for 'bending history' (Stalin's model of social change). And when you destabilize the status quo and induce social and economic change, you're very vulnerable to getting shot down.

  It's also a very privileged position. You're just out there, and it feels like an 'Oh shit!' moment. All the time.

  Then there's that damned consensus-making. I mean it's like moving an Army. The whole Army's on the move, and the direction is set. And you're either part of it, or you're not.

  Secondary Integrity is like being in the Army. It's the integrity of a global enterprise, of historical change, of being on the Long March of Care. And sometimes your Primary Integrity feels like screaming, 'Hey, wait a minute!' or 'I didn't vote for that!'

  But finally your Primary Integrity gets expended--fizzled, if you will--like air rushing out of a balloon. That's just the way it is. And when your fizzle is done, either your expenditure has participated in a great moment of bending history, or you've maybe done something else.

  If we're lucky (and blessed) we may get to participate in a great historical movement of Secondary Integrity. And in that expenditure our Primary Integrity gets busted flat and hung out to dry. But experiencing Secondary Integrity is being one's being in relation to a very mysterious reality. It's like dancing with the Mystery itself.

  Karl Rove, on the other hand, got to dance with a President.

  Marshall Jones

  BTW, Randy, I also filmed the well in Bayad. The water was real. No slick tricks. No smoke and mirrors.

R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com> wrote:
    No disrespect intended for Marshall, but his reasoning regarding the well in Maliwada makes him a prime candidate to be Karl Rove's successor.  I too was a part of the "sell the well" activity, in my case the well in Bayad, not Maliwada.  The practical problem with that is, in the face of short term gain, the funding sources sooner or later discover you have no integrity, i.e. you do not do what you say you will do, the funding dries up, and the reputation follows you around the world.

  But the moral problem is in the assumption that appears to be behind a group of elites believing they know what's good for everyone.  "You don't have the ??? (big picture, vocational commitment, spiritual depth, or whatever) to know what's needed, but I do, and I'll tell you whatever I must to get you to do what I've decided you need to do.  I'm a 'spirit person' and you're an ass, the 'donkey on the bridge,' an 'infidel.'"  From this kind of "elitism," the approach becomes coercion and manipulation from a "subject" to an "object," an "I and it," rather than persuasion between two "subjects," an "I and Thou." (Buber)  In time this infects your internal relations as well (elitism within the Order) and the whole system becomes corrupt as in Nazi Germany or what this country begins to look like after nearly eight years of Bush's thinking the American people don't have the sense (or whatever) to be trusted with the basic freedoms afforded under the Constitution.

  I think Marilyn is onto something when she compares primary and secondary integrity to Bonhoeffer's understanding of responsibility.  For Bonhoeffer, responsibility was not a choice between to be free OR to be obedient, but to stand in the tension between the two.  When you collapsed obedience and stood only on the freedom pole you were the "irresponsible genius."

  So with intergrity--it is not a choice between primary OR secondary, but to stand in the tension between the two.  When you abandon primary integrity for a perverted version of secondary integrity, you become Bonhoeffer's "irresponsible genius."  Maybe it plays out this way.  If I have decided that digging a well in Bayad (or Maliwada) is the "necessary deed" and I can't persuade you to see it that way so that you provide the funding (primary integrity), then I don't become "dissuaded" by your argument and end my quest. Instead, if I believe it's really necessary, I go find someone else who will see it my way and commit to pay for it (secondary integrity.)  History will decide if it was indeed necessary.

  I agree with Dick.  I have pondered for a long time that we did often operate from a perverted understanding of secondary integrity and that it did hurt our effectiveness externally and our morale internally as an Order.  I'm glad we're talking about it now.  Perhaps some more "fools" will "rush in" to participate in this conversation.

  Randy Williams

Marilyn R Crocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com> wrote:

  To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
  Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:07:58 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Dialogue] {Disarmed} Re:  Secondary Ethics

  Dick et al,

  My understanding of "secondary" integrity (as opposed to the rules, regs and legalisms that,for me, represent "primary" integrity) is that which guides one's actions in accord with the "necessary deed" -- the freely responsible action (cf Bonhoeffer) which I've never found is a simplistic cop out, but rather the result of complex, prayer filled discernment.

  I would be interested to know more about your thinking, Dick, that led you to conclude this was our movement's most serious perversion.

  With appreciation for the resources you bring to our "virtual" collegium room table,

  Marilyn

  Marilyn R. Crocker, Ed.D
Crocker & Associates, Inc.
123 Sanborn Road
West Newfield, ME 04095
(207) 793-3711

  On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:23:34 EDT KroegerD at aol.com writes:

  Here is a link to the subject not from the spirit movement.
  http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Model-of-Ethics-for-Womens-Development&id=654252

  On golden pathways a google search delivered only a speech by Mathews in Korea.  ( below )

  good luck with that!!

  In my words, secondary integrity means doing whatever is necessary, telling story ( even if it is totally untrue) in order to ger 'er done.  In my opinion, it was our movement's most serious perversion, and ultimately did in the spirit movement as an organization.

  Dick Kroeger

    Global Priors Council   e all-new MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "discover.aol.com" claiming to be AOL.com.

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