[Dialogue] Perverted Vision, Perverted Ethics

Thu Aug 23 17:23:30 EDT 2007

Marshall, you are one of my favorite Order repositories (bet you've never
been called that). 

Your warring colleague in 5th City, 

John

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J.
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:57 PM
To: Colleague Dialogue; oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Dialogue] Perverted Vision, Perverted Ethics

Having been compared to Karl Rove, I am very aware that there was (and is) a
major difference between Us and Them. The Order:Ecumenical wasn't really
about screwing the world and the environment for the short term gain of a
few corporate capitalists.

Despite the reality of 'unintended consequences', the process of discerning
and articulating a vision of global inclusion and participation, and rolling
out an army of volunteers to facilitate a process of comprehensive
socio-economic village development can't be compared to the invasion of the
Bushies.

But it was an 'invasion' by an 'elite' with a 'vision' and a 'model' for
'bending history' (Stalin's model of social change). And when you
destabilize the status quo and induce social and economic change, you're
very vulnerable to getting shot down.

It's also a very privileged position. You're just out there, and it feels
like an 'Oh shit!' moment. All the time.

Then there's that damned consensus-making. I mean it's like moving an Army.
The whole Army's on the move, and the direction is set. And you're either
part of it, or you're not.

Secondary Integrity is like being in the Army. It's the integrity of a
global enterprise, of historical change, of being on the Long March of Care.
And sometimes your Primary Integrity feels like screaming, 'Hey, wait a
minute!' or 'I didn't vote for that!'

But finally your Primary Integrity gets expended--fizzled, if you will--like
air rushing out of a balloon. That's just the way it is. And when your
fizzle is done, either your expenditure has participated in a great moment
of bending history, or you've maybe done something else.

If we're lucky (and blessed) we may get to participate in a great historical
movement of Secondary Integrity. And in that expenditure our Primary
Integrity gets busted flat and hung out to dry. But experiencing Secondary
Integrity is being one's being in relation to a very mysterious reality.
It's like dancing with the Mystery itself.

Karl Rove, on the other hand, got to dance with a President.

Marshall Jones

BTW, Randy, I also filmed the well in Bayad. The water was real. No slick
tricks. No smoke and mirrors.

R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com> wrote:

No disrespect intended for Marshall, but his reasoning regarding the well in
Maliwada makes him a prime candidate to be Karl Rove's successor.  I too was
a part of the "sell the well" activity, in my case the well in Bayad, not
Maliwada.  The practical problem with that is, in the face of short term
gain, the funding sources sooner or later discover you have no integrity,
i.e. you do not do what you say you will do, the funding dries up, and the
reputation follows you around the world.

But the moral problem is in the assumption that appears to be behind a group
of elites believing they know what's good for everyone.  "You don't have the
??? (big picture, vocational commitment, spiritual depth, or whatever) to
know what's needed, but I do, and I'll tell you whatever I must to get you
to do what I've decided you need to do.  I'm a 'spirit person' and you're an
ass, the 'donkey on the bridge,' an 'infidel.'"  From this kind of
"elitism," the approach becomes coercion and manipulation from a "subject"
to an "object," an "I and it," rather than persuasion between two
"subjects," an "I and Thou." (Buber)  In time this infects your internal
relations as well (elitism within the Order) and the whole system becomes
corrupt as in Nazi Germany or what this country begins to look like after
nearly eight years of Bush's thinking the American people don't have the
sense (or whatever) to be trusted with the basic freedoms afforded under the
Constitution.

I think Marilyn is onto something when she compares primary and secondary
integrity to Bonhoeffer's understanding of responsibility.  For Bonhoeffer,
responsibility was not a choice between to be free OR to be obedient, but to
stand in the tension between the two.  When you collapsed obedience and
stood only on the freedom pole you were the "irresponsible genius."

So with intergrity--it is not a choice between primary OR secondary, but to
stand in the tension between the two.  When you abandon primary integrity
for a perverted version of secondary integrity, you become Bonhoeffer's
"irresponsible genius."  Maybe it plays out this way.  If I have decided
that digging a well in Bayad (or Maliwada) is the "necessary deed" and I
can't persuade you to see it that way so that you provide the funding
(primary integrity), then I don't become "dissuaded" by your argument and
end my quest. Instead, if I believe it's really necessary, I go find someone
else who will see it my way and commit to pay for it (secondary integrity.)
History will decide if it was indeed necessary.

I agree with Dick.  I have pondered for a long time that we did often
operate from a perverted understanding of secondary integrity and that it
did hurt our effectiveness externally and our morale internally as an Order.
I'm glad we're talking about it now.  Perhaps some more "fools" will "rush
in" to participate in this conversation.

Randy Williams

Marilyn R Crocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com> wrote:

To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:07:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] {Disarmed} Re:  Secondary Ethics

Dick et al,

My understanding of "secondary" integrity (as opposed to the rules, regs and
legalisms that,for me, represent "primary" integrity) is that which guides
one's actions in accord with the "necessary deed" -- the freely responsible
action (cf Bonhoeffer) which I've never found is a simplistic cop out, but
rather the result of complex, prayer filled discernment.

I would be interested to know more about your thinking, Dick, that led you
to conclude this was our movement's most serious perversion.

With appreciation for the resources you bring to our "virtual" collegium
room table,

Marilyn

Marilyn R. Crocker, Ed.D
Crocker & Associates, Inc.
123 Sanborn Road
West Newfield, ME 04095
(207) 793-3711

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:23:34 EDT KroegerD at aol.com writes:

Here is a link to the subject not from the spirit movement.
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Model-of-Ethics-for-Womens-Development
<http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Model-of-Ethics-for-Womens-Development&id=65425
2> &id=654252

On golden pathways a google search delivered only a speech by Mathews in
Korea.  ( below )

good luck with that!!

In my words, secondary integrity means doing whatever is necessary, telling
story ( even if it is totally untrue) in order to ger 'er done.  In my
opinion, it was our movement's most serious perversion, and ultimately did
in the spirit movement as an organization.

Dick Kroeger

Global Priors Council 
e all-new
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
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claiming to be AOL.com.

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