[Dialogue] Spong

Tue Dec 23 10:10:46 EST 2008

Marshall, First, seasonal greetings! Secondly, I find your insightful utterances always astonishing! I have written down the following 2009 theme in my new calendar planner, " Creating a life of revolutionary servanthood as a "nobody". W.J."
Dick

Richard H.T. Alton
International Consultants and Associates
'building global bridges'
166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N
Oak Park, IL 60302
T:1.773.344.7172
richard.alton at gmail.com

Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back 
   Babe Ruth

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:57:04 -0800
From: synergi at yahoo.com
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong

I wouldn't worry too much about Bishop Spong's slide into poverty, considering his speaking fees, royalties from his many books, and internet income.
He spoke at my church several times over the years, and the last time charged us a fee of "only" $300. Of course he's not exactly welcome within the Episcopal Diocese, fee or no fee, so he speaks outside the fold, so to speak.
Although I enjoy reading his posts, his bashing of the three story universe and biblical literalists strikes me as crass.He's not exactly comparable to Bonhoeffer, who wrote of a "religionless" Christianity.
I also wonder about his sense of personal integrity. In fact he's a closeted gay man hiding behind his marriage while promoting a gay-affirming message. How gay-affirming can you be if you have to hide the truth to make your philosophical points?
He's also assumed a kind of celebrity status within certain circles, which, I suppose, is an alternative to creating a life of revolutionary servanthood as a "nobody". 
All in all, his is better than your average clergy retirement package. I'm more concerned about the "nobodies" among us and how we're all surviving.
Marshall

On Sun, 12/21/08, Beret Griffith <beretgriffith at charter.net> wrote:

From: Beret Griffith <beretgriffith at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong: 12/18/08: Amos: The Prophet Who Transformed God Into Justice
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 8:06 PM

I appreciate getting the Spong postings and at one time felt a slight pang at not paying for them. Then, while on the adult education committee at our church I was part of discussions to ask Spong to speak at the local UMC church while he was in the area for another engagement. The chair of the committee communicated with Spong's wife who handles his speaking engagements. As I recall the request was to speak at the church service (abouit 20 minutes) and at the adult forum (a 45 minute program). Spong's wife wrote back that the time was free and the fee was upwards of $5,000, non-negotiable. People most often regard it as an great opportunity to speak at the church and adult forums and are appreciative of the small honorarium they receive. We did not engage Spong. My memory of details may be off some tho not much. I hope the Spong postings continue and am grateful to colleagues who are contributing to the Spong site on our behalf.

Beret

At 03:44 PM 12/21/2008, you wrote:

There are a multitude of websites requesting financial support.  And many that I do support which do not require subscriptions but rely on the generosity of their readers, unfortunately I can not support them all.  I am grateful that I can share Bishop Spong's essays and that colleagues who do subscribe to them are willing and able to post them to us.  Although I agree we should not take advantage of such good sites, I also feel overwhelmed in how many I can help out.  However if you and Adam feel so inclined to shame your colleagues into refraining from taking advantage of the help we receive from them as they subscribe and share his essays with us, then I will miss the absent postings very much and hope that some time in the future they will return to the Dialogue.

Thank you Ellie and Dick (posthumously) for continuing the tradition of posting Bishop Spong's essays.  I look
 forward to receiving more but fully understand that you maybe ethically inhibited from posting them.  I believe we all contribute to the needs of the Internet in our own ways and you have certainly given us access to a very worthwhile website.  Please keep it up.

Jim Baumbach

inmusunka at sbcglobal.net wrote: 

Thank you Adam Thomson!  Impecunious though I be, I just took the leap and signed up, feeling now chagrined that I have been reading free while others supported this great thinker's endeavor provide us all with the fruits of his labors.  A truly progressive thought, you had, in this new era.

Rev. Bob Ford
Preston Bradley Center, NFP
312-735-2123 cell
inmusunka at sbcglobal.net

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Adam Thomson 

To: Colleague Dialogue 

Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:17 AM

Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Spong: 12/18/08: Amos: The Prophet Who Transformed God Into Justice

Concerning Bishop Spong and his essays - at the risk of saying something that some might consider taboo, I do want to make this point:

Bishop Spong has a website where one can subscribe to his weekly essays at just under $30.00 a year. I cannot see how this sum is a major barrier to benefiting from Spong's insights, for most people.

Why should we not give financial support to this site? I think it is wrong for us not to - and I have subscribed to the site for several years. 

It isn't as though we are in the business of "in-kinding for the sake of the mission" any more.

Best wishes to all

Adam

END OF MESSAGE

At 23:01 18/12/2008, you wrote:

Hi Ellie,

Thanks so much for forwarding Spong to all of us.  I was afraid I might lose touch when Dick Kroger.  Thanks for continuing the flame bearing.

Charles Hahn

From: "elliestock at aol.com" <elliestock at aol.com>

To: Dialogue at wedgeblade.net; OE at wedgeblade.net

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:26:04 AM

Subject: [Dialogue] Spong: 12/18/08: Amos: The Prophet Who Transformed God Into Justice

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Thursday December 18, 2008 

Amos: The Prophet Who Transformed God Into Justice

Not every character in the Bible starts out to be a hero. Indeed, one of the great themes of biblical literature is that it is the meek and the lowly who become the channels through which God is known in new ways. Mary, the mother of Jesus, is portrayed as expressing this theme in the Magnificat when she is made to utter these words, "For he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden," but later generations "will call me blessed." The Old Testament prophet who makes this truth powerfully real is named Amos. Today we turn to his story. 

Amos was a citizen of the Southern Kingdom of Judah in the 8th century BCE. He lived in the village of Tekoa where he was a herdsman and a keeper of sycamore trees, employment that hardly demanded high academic achievements or the credentials that produced great expectations. In those days Uzziah was king of Judah and Jeroboam II was on the throne of the Northern Kingdom. The major powers of the world were preoccupied with their own problems and with each other, which allowed these two small Jewish states to bask in an Indian summer of prosperity, peace and wealth. The distribution of that wealth was, however, hardly balanced. The worship places of the Jewish world were crowded on holy days and religion was popular among the greedy ones who dominated the social order. There thus appeared to be little relationship between the words of the popular religion and the practices of people's lives in the public arena. In many ways that is not dissimilar from
 the current situation in the United States, where a few have achieved fortunes by greed and manipulation of the markets, creating a situation in which the wealthy are increasingly wealthy and the poor are increasingly poor and people even now seem not to be concerned. This dichotomy, however, burned itself into the consciousness of this simple herdsman named Amos and, like the proverbial "Hound of Heaven," it allowed him no rest until he had addressed this issue overtly and publicly. Amos packed his suitcase and journeyed from Tekoa in the land of Judah to the shrine of Bethel in the Northern Kingdom to make his witness. 

When he arrived Amos entered the courtyard of this holy place, where all of his suspicions were confirmed. He saw the crowds dressed in their finery busily attending to holy things while the poor outside the city gates were largely ignored. Amos wondered how he might get the crowd's attention. He was a clever man, however, and knew how to appeal to the instincts of the people. He found a corner in the courtyard, set up a soap box and then, using one of the oldest tricks in human history, he began to solicit first the curiosity and later the full attention of the crowd. Let me try to re-create the story. 

"Come closer," Amos shouted from his ma keshift pulpit, "Let me tell you about the sins of the people of the city of Damascus." Amos knew that everyone likes to hear gossip about the moral weaknesses of their neighbors and so as he excoriated the Damascans the crowds grew. Next he turned his judgment first on the people of Gaza and then on Tyre, condemning the sinful practices found in both cities. The crowd, loving it, grew even larger as Amos continued to appeal to their prejudices about and suspicions of their neighbors. This strange looking rube from the south said the things they wanted to hear. Then Amos moved to larger targets and his oratory rose to new heights as he focused on the nation states surrounding the Northern Kingdom. First it was the Edomites and about their sins Amos got more specific. The Edomites had pursued "their brothers with a sword, showing them no pity and they had allowed anger to tear perpetually" at the fabric of their
 society. The ecstatic crowd began to shout, "You tell 'em, preacher." With every loud voice of encouragement, the people gathered in ever greater numbers. Next it was the Amorites' turn. According to Amos, they had attacked Gilead and "ripped up the women with child in order to enlarge their borders." As Amos pronounced his message of doom on these nations, the people gathered around him roared their approval. When he turned to the very unpopular M
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