[Dialogue] For all you milk lovers

Thu Jul 3 22:05:58 EDT 2008

Jim,

Sweetbreads, as you probably know,?are made from animal thymus and/or pancreas glands.? You may not know any doctors who recommend taking insulin orally, but I can find you a chef who does.? Knowing that people have consumed large?doses of insulin from eating pancreas glands over many millennia may not be proof of the harmlessness of taking oral insulin, but is pretty good evidence in favor of it being harmless.? You may know that the source of insulin for injection was animal pancreas glands for many years.? Diabetics allergic to pork could take beef insulin and vice versa.? I do not know for sure, but I think thousands of units if insulin could be obtained from a single gland, so, a generous serving of pancreas sweetbreads would contain a lot of insulin.? The current source for injectable insulin is human insulin derived by recombinant technology, the same technology used to make beef and human growth hormone.? No more concerns about beef and pork allergies for diabetics that must take injectable insulin.

I would like a reference for the scientific research that suggests that an oral form of insulin not only works, but is more effective than injectable insulin.? That is an amazing breakthrough.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Baumbach <wtw0bl at new.rr.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 6:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers

Don,

This conversation has many elements of doubt as you can imagine.? One of the men in our Men's group is a farm animal vet and a farmer's accountant.? His recent comments in similar discussions assert that there are by-products of bgh in milk but have not been proven to his satisfaction that they are either harmful or harmless.

My concern is that there are many countries outside the influence of Monsanto that prohibit such stimulants in their dairy products. That makes me uncomfortable to assume that just because a similar molecule, namely insulin, is degraded in the digestive tract and is not given to diabetic patients orally without considerable protection of the molecules, it does not mean that insulin can be ingested directly without some harm to a person who is not diabetic.? There is much research going on now to find an oral form of insulin such as incorporation in nanoparticles and that some studies on rats indicate that insulin absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract is more effective than injections or inhalations.? But it is well known that insulin given to a healthy person is very dangerous.? Aside from being a rather ridiculous idea, no doctor that I know of would ever suggest to a patient that it is OK to ingest insulin.? Why would anyone recommend ingesting IGF1?

The terminology used for describing the results of ingested insulin as "readily degraded" does not imply completely destroyed.? Therefore, until some organization not funded by nor manged by such corporations as Monsanto do some fundamental research on the properties of ingested IGF1, I will opt to buy "Farmer Certified rBGH FREE" milk? If you or any one else can prove to me, scientifically, that there is no effect of IGF1 beyond the absolute safety which the Monsanto claims from their subsidized experts, then I will buy into your argument.? Show me the objective research.

Jim Baumbach

Don Elliott wrote: 
George,

When I see something as blatantly wrong as suggesting that an ingested protein, akin to insulin, is dangerous when ingested, that makes me suspicious of the other data about which I know little, like the pus, antibiotics, ("quiet-test), etc.? I am not an apologist for the FDA or Monsanto.? I am?just questioning the veracity of this information you are passing on, because I know a part of it to be absolutely false.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 6:43 am
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers

Dear Don, 
Thanks for the update on lgf- 101. ?Since I don't use dairy the point is moot for me, but if I did, I don't think I'd like an increase of pus in my milk at the least. ?I'm also a bit suspicious of what comes out later in such studies and why Monsanto puts the "quitetest" on such info. The USFDA does appear to have a grand bit of influence from the drug makers, having had several friends and relatives negatively effected by some of the meds hailed as saviors and later pulled off the market. ?I remember reading similar papers written by scientists explaining the harmlessness or limits and even touting the virtues of various drugs or substances, which later turned out to be the reverse. ?I would really recommend the reading of the China Study. ?No offense intended.

George Holcombe

14900 Yellowleaf Tr.

Austin, TX 78728

Home: 512/252-2756

Mobile 512/294-5952

geowanda at earthlink.net

On Jul 2, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Don Elliott wrote:

George, George, George,

?

This igf-1, insulin like growth factor, is a protein which is digested in the gut and has no biologic effect on the consumer when taken by mouth.? You must know that diabetics that must take insulin, require injections, because, like its cousin ilg-1, it is digested like any other protein?and has no effect if taken orally.? This concern about the ill effects of the igf-1 in milk does not seem credible to me.

Don

This may help:

 Igf-1 101 

IGF1, also known as somatomedin C, is polypeptide hormone about the same size as insulin. It is produced predominantly in the liver in response to growth hormone (GH) release from the pituitary gland. Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. IGF1 belongs in the 'superfamily' of substances known as 'growth factors,' along with epidermal (skin), transforming; platelet derived fibroblast, nerve, and ciliary neurotrophic growth factors. None of the other factors have any bearing on exoskeletal tissue incidentally however These agents all have in common the ability to stimulate cell division, known as mitogenesis, and cell differentiation. Meaning That In the case of IGF1 which does act on muscle tissue it will initie the growth of new muscle fibers, and subsequently new receptors for testosterone. Users have unanimously concluded that it enhances cycles of steroids significantly. They also seem to be adamant about its ability to reduce fat and improve vascularity a great deal. 
The IGF1 Hype 
There is a considerable amount of hype surrounding IGF1. Every one is blaming the distended bellies of modern Bodybuilders on it. Also the freaky proportions that old bodybuilders that have been around for years are starting to attain. Anti-aging proponents are touting it as the miracle cure for every thing from Parkinson's disease to Alzheimer's. And the medical community has published numerous articles on it for its ability to cause cancer, diabetes and gigantism. While at the same time performing documented experiments on thousands of patients of muscle wasting diseases. And reporting significant turnabouts in there conditions. So what is a guy to think about IGF1 as far as athletic enhancement is concerned? Well first of all you need to know that most experiments conducted with IGF1 do not list the type of IGF used. I have written Dr. Robert Saline of the Swedish rejuvenation institute on several occasions and we have had in-depth discussions on the subject of IGF1 for physical appearance enhancement. Hfeels it would be unethical to prescribe IGF1 to a bodybuilder to increase muscle mass simply due to the fact that IGF1 has valid applications in the medical community, (Like I could give a rats ass about "ethical"). He can not argue that it is extremely effective as a promoter of muscle growth far beyond what androgens (steroids) alone can offer. Well fortunately in America IGF1 is not a drug (yet) and the FDA has no control over it as of now. This will change in the very near future however, Im absolutely sure of it. 
How to use IGF1 
Assuming that you have acquired legitimate IGF1 (R3) long chain, That's IGF1 with the binding protein added. You should take dosages ranging from 60mcg up to 120mcg per day in divided doses. One injection in the morning and again at bed time. Never exceed 120mcg in one day. IGF1 can cause serious gastrointestinal problems such as tumors intestinal swelling diarrhea and vomiting. Most IGF1 comes in a concentration of 1000mcg per ML or CC so it makes it easy to measure in an insulin syringe. 10 IU on the syringe is 100mcg. Do the math. 
IGF + Insulin 
If you plan on doing IGF1 with Insulin, listen closely IGF1 is not that expensive, sure you can get away with using less by including insulin in the stack, but IGF1 and Insulin together have a pro-insulin effect on your blood sugar balance. It can enhance the chances of a hypoglycemic episode ten fold. I would recommend against it for any one not ABSOLUTLY comfortable with insulin or IGF1. 
Here is how insulin and IGF1 work together. Igfbp3 is the binding protein, which allows IGF1 to remain active in the system for a long enough period of time to really work its magic. IGF1 by nature has a half-life of less than 10 minutes by its self. The molecule was so small it would escape the blood stream very rapidly. This was the reason IGF1 was so "underground". It took very frequent injections at high dosages to achieve even minimal results. Aside from this reconstituting the compound required a degree in biochemistry. This short acting version was the only IGF1 known until recently IGF1 would have been administered in 100 mcg dosages 4-6 times a day. That is a hell of a lot of IGF1. That explains a lot of the distended bellies. Now with R3 long chain IGF1 and the Binding protein IGFBP3 IGF1 will last up to 6 hours in the system. By binding IGF to the IGFBP3 you make the molecule larger and it gets trapped in the blood stream until the protein is broken down and the IGF molecule escapes. You can furtr its life by combining Insulin with it, although I hear it is very risky. Insulin prevents the breakdown of IGFBP3 and leaves the IGF1 molecule roaming free in the blood stream for longer periods of time up to 12 hours as insulin levels return to normal IGFBP3 will begin to break down and the IGF1 will escape from its bound protein IGFBP3 again having a half life of less than 10 minutes. 
Insulin should be taken at the normal dosage it is usually administered at minus 10% about 45 minutes prior to the IGF1 infusion. Again let me remind you this can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing. And of course do not use Insulin for the nighttime injection of IGF1 by taking it in the morning you prolong the IGF1's half life to 12 hours and then take a 6 hour injection, you should be fine. Hell if you want to eat a big bowl of rice and drink another 100g of simple carbs 45 minutes before the bed time IGF1 infusion you could spike insulin for at least a few hours of extended IGF1 activity. If your not going to be using insulin in the stack then go ahead and do the same in the morning. 
What users report 
Users of IGF1 have reported various results but all along the same lines, It does not appear to be dramatically less effective in any one individual (at least not to the best of my knowledge). I have a good friend who had to stop taking IGF1 due to stomach illness that was completely unrelated But he to experienced good gains from it for the 2 weeks he was on it, his dosage was 120mcg per day. One hour after the first injection he went to the gym and immediately told me about the uncontrollable pump he got from just one set. 
That would indicate to me that he was experiencing some form of cell volumization. The general consensus on IGF1 seems to be that its benefits are as fallow: 
Increased Pump Pumps are reported to be so severe that workouts are often cut short due to lack of ability to the muscle through the full range of motion...ouch 
Gains retention is increased if IGF is used in a cycle I am not sure why, but IGF1 seems to make gains on a cycle stick with virtually no post cycle loss. Every bodybuilder I've spoken with seems to think this for some reason. Most of them use drugs like Anadrol or Dianabol with it because of the amount of size attained with these drugs. The usual draw back to these drugs is that in most users there is a post cycle "crash" that occurs, so the reasoning is to toss IGF1 into the stack and grow larger faster with out the post cycle crash blues. 
Reverses testicular atrophy 
Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak even in the middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not shrink during the cycle. This may explain partially why gains are kept after the cycle. 
Fatigue 
Users report feeling drained and tired all day. This seems to be one of the negative side effects to IGF1, it will make you sleep longer and you will require more sleep at night to feel rested for the morning. This is common with high doses of HGH and exhibited in children, whose IGF1 levels are extraordinarily high. A child needs 4 hours more sleep than an adult on average. This may be directly or indirectly related to IGF1 levels. 
Stiffness 
An almost arthritic feeling is commonly associated with high levels of HGH, well IGF1 has the exact same property. IGF1 will cause your hands, fingers and knuckles to ache this is one way you can be sure you got real IGF1. 
IGF-1's Side effects 
Every thing has a down side. To bake a cake ya gotta break an egg. IGF1 is no exception. The drug used in larger quantity around the 100mcg+ range will cause headaches, occasional nausea and can contribute to low blood sugar or hypoglycemia in some users. Although I have never heard of this first hand I'm sure its true. 
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause hypertrophy of the gut. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what causes the GH gut look. You can easily avoid this by limiting your dosages and cycle lengths. IGF1 cycles should be kept to 4-6 weeks with 4-6 weeks off in-between. IGF-1 is considerably more powerful than HGH and you need to think of it along those lines as far as dosing goes. We all know what too much HGH can do over prolonged periods of usage. The Neanderthal look is definitely not going to win any shows this year. I would recommend 80 mcg a day for 4 weeks at a time you should get good results from that for a while. I don't know if you will need to up the dosage at any point, but I would think in the case of IGF1 it wouldn't matter. If 80mcg doesn't do it for you, then bump it up to 100 You should definitely feel it at this point If not suspect the IGF1 as beingake. Beyond 120 mcg per day your asking for trouble, This compound demands as much respect as its sister amino Insulin.

__________________

-----Original Message-----
From: George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>; ICA LIST SERVE <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 3:23 pm
Subject: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers

This might interest those who are health conscious and use milk. ?It's a statement by a former US FDA employee. ?Hopefully this has not spread to other countries. 

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/rBGHinDairyProducts/index.cfm

A very good book to read on food is The China Study?(the most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Every Conducted) by T. Colin Campbell, PhD, you can get it on Amazon.

George Holcombe

14900 Yellowleaf Tr.

Austin, TX 78728

Home: 512/252-2756

Mobile 512/294-5952

geowanda at earthlink.net

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