[Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
Elliestock at aol.com
Elliestock at aol.com
Fri Jul 4 16:34:28 EDT 2008
chemicals or no, cow's milk is for baby cows...but neither the dairy
industry nor Monsanto will tell you that...
Ellie Stock
In a message dated 7/3/2008 7:14:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
wtw0bl at new.rr.com writes:
Don,
This conversation has many elements of doubt as you can imagine. One of the
men in our Men's group is a farm animal vet and a farmer's accountant. His
recent comments in similar discussions assert that there are by-products of
bgh in milk but have not been proven to his satisfaction that they are either
harmful or harmless.
My concern is that there are many countries outside the influence of
Monsanto that prohibit such stimulants in their dairy products. That makes me
uncomfortable to assume that just because a similar molecule, namely insulin, is
degraded in the digestive tract and is not given to diabetic patients orally
without considerable protection of the molecules, it does not mean that insulin
can be ingested directly without some harm to a person who is not diabetic.
There is much research going on now to find an oral form of insulin such as
incorporation in nanoparticles and that some studies on rats indicate that
insulin absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract is more effective than
injections or inhalations. But it is well known that insulin given to a healthy
person is very dangerous. Aside from being a rather ridiculous idea, no
doctor that I know of would ever suggest to a patient that it is OK to ingest
insulin. Why would anyone recommend ingesting IGF1?
The terminology used for describing the results of ingested insulin as
"readily degraded" does not imply completely destroyed. Therefore, until some
organization not funded by nor manged by such corporations as Monsanto do some
fundamental research on the properties of ingested IGF1, I will opt to buy
"Farmer Certified rBGH FREE" milk If you or any one else can prove to me,
scientifically, that there is no effect of IGF1 beyond the absolute safety which
the Monsanto claims from their subsidized experts, then I will buy into your
argument. Show me the objective research.
Jim Baumbach
Don Elliott wrote:
George,
When I see something as blatantly wrong as suggesting that an ingested
protein, akin to insulin, is dangerous when ingested, that makes me suspicious of
the other data about which I know little, like the pus, antibiotics,
("quiet-test), etc. I am not an apologist for the FDA or Monsanto. I am just
questioning the veracity of this information you are passing on, because I know a
part of it to be absolutely false.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: George Holcombe _<geowanda at earthlink.net>_
(mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net)
To: Colleague Dialogue _<dialogue at wedgeblade.net>_
(mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net)
Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 6:43 am
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
Dear Don,
Thanks for the update on lgf- 101. Since I don't use dairy the point is
moot for me, but if I did, I don't think I'd like an increase of pus in my milk
at the least. I'm also a bit suspicious of what comes out later in such
studies and why Monsanto puts the "quitetest" on such info. The USFDA does appear
to have a grand bit of influence from the drug makers, having had several
friends and relatives negatively effected by some of the meds hailed as saviors
and later pulled off the market. I remember reading similar papers written
by scientists explaining the harmlessness or limits and even touting the
virtues of various drugs or substances, which later turned out to be the reverse.
I would really recommend the reading of the China Study. No offense
intended.
George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Home: 512/252-2756
Mobile 512/294-5952
_geowanda at earthlink.net_ (mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net)
On Jul 2, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Don Elliott wrote:
George, George, George,
This igf-1, insulin like growth factor, is a protein which is digested in
the gut and has no biologic effect on the consumer when taken by mouth. You
must know that diabetics that must take insulin, require injections, because,
like its cousin ilg-1, it is digested like any other protein and has no effect
if taken orally. This concern about the ill effects of the igf-1 in milk
does not seem credible to me.
Don
This may help:
Igf-1 101
____________________________________
IGF1, also known as somatomedin C, is polypeptide hormone about the same
size as insulin. It is produced predominantly in the liver in response to growth
hormone (GH) release from the pituitary gland. Many of the growth promoting
effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The
conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most
external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1
acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. IGF1 belongs in the
'superfamily' of substances known as 'growth factors,' along with epidermal
(skin), transforming; platelet derived fibroblast, nerve, and ciliary neurotrophic
growth factors. None of the other factors have any bearing on exoskeletal
tissue incidentally however These agents all have in common the ability to
stimulate cell division, known as mitogenesis, and cell differentiation. Meaning
That In the case of IGF1 which does act on muscle tissue it will initie the
growth of new muscle fibers, and subsequently new receptors for testosterone.
Users have unanimously concluded that it enhances cycles of steroids
significantly. They also seem to be adamant about its ability to reduce fat and
improve vascularity a great deal.
The IGF1 Hype
There is a considerable amount of hype surrounding IGF1. Every one is
blaming the distended bellies of modern Bodybuilders on it. Also the freaky
proportions that old bodybuilders that have been around for years are starting to
attain. Anti-aging proponents are touting it as the miracle cure for every
thing from Parkinson's disease to Alzheimer's. And the medical community has
published numerous articles on it for its ability to cause cancer, diabetes and
gigantism. While at the same time performing documented experiments on
thousands of patients of muscle wasting diseases. And reporting significant
turnabouts in there conditions. So what is a guy to think about IGF1 as far as
athletic enhancement is concerned? Well first of all you need to know that most
experiments conducted with IGF1 do not list the type of IGF used. I have
written Dr. Robert Saline of the Swedish rejuvenation institute on several
occasions and we have had in-depth discussions on the subject of IGF1 for physical
appearance enhancement. Hfeels it would be unethical to prescribe IGF1 to a
bodybuilder to increase muscle mass simply due to the fact that IGF1 has valid
applications in the medical community, (Like I could give a rats ass about
"ethical"). He can not argue that it is extremely effective as a promoter of
muscle growth far beyond what androgens (steroids) alone can offer. Well
fortunately in America IGF1 is not a drug (yet) and the FDA has no control over it
as of now. This will change in the very near future however, Im absolutely
sure of it.
How to use IGF1
Assuming that you have acquired legitimate IGF1 (R3) long chain, That's IGF1
with the binding protein added. You should take dosages ranging from 60mcg
up to 120mcg per day in divided doses. One injection in the morning and again
at bed time. Never exceed 120mcg in one day. IGF1 can cause serious
gastrointestinal problems such as tumors intestinal swelling diarrhea and vomiting.
Most IGF1 comes in a concentration of 1000mcg per ML or CC so it makes it easy
to measure in an insulin syringe. 10 IU on the syringe is 100mcg. Do the
math.
IGF + Insulin
If you plan on doing IGF1 with Insulin, listen closely IGF1 is not that
expensive, sure you can get away with using less by including insulin in the
stack, but IGF1 and Insulin together have a pro-insulin effect on your blood
sugar balance. It can enhance the chances of a hypoglycemic episode ten fold. I
would recommend against it for any one not ABSOLUTLY comfortable with insulin
or IGF1.
Here is how insulin and IGF1 work together. Igfbp3 is the binding protein,
which allows IGF1 to remain active in the system for a long enough period of
time to really work its magic. IGF1 by nature has a half-life of less than 10
minutes by its self. The molecule was so small it would escape the blood
stream very rapidly. This was the reason IGF1 was so "underground". It took very
frequent injections at high dosages to achieve even minimal results. Aside
from this reconstituting the compound required a degree in biochemistry. This
short acting version was the only IGF1 known until recently IGF1 would have
been administered in 100 mcg dosages 4-6 times a day. That is a hell of a lot
of IGF1. That explains a lot of the distended bellies. Now with R3 long chain
IGF1 and the Binding protein IGFBP3 IGF1 will last up to 6 hours in the
system. By binding IGF to the IGFBP3 you make the molecule larger and it gets
trapped in the blood stream until the protein is broken down and the IGF molecule
escapes. You can furtr its life by combining Insulin with it, although I
hear it is very risky. Insulin prevents the breakdown of IGFBP3 and leaves the
IGF1 molecule roaming free in the blood stream for longer periods of time up
to 12 hours as insulin levels return to normal IGFBP3 will begin to break
down and the IGF1 will escape from its bound protein IGFBP3 again having a half
life of less than 10 minutes.
Insulin should be taken at the normal dosage it is usually administered at
minus 10% about 45 minutes prior to the IGF1 infusion. Again let me remind you
this can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing. And of course do
not use Insulin for the nighttime injection of IGF1 by taking it in the morning
you prolong the IGF1's half life to 12 hours and then take a 6 hour
injection, you should be fine. Hell if you want to eat a big bowl of rice and drink
another 100g of simple carbs 45 minutes before the bed time IGF1 infusion you
could spike insulin for at least a few hours of extended IGF1 activity. If
your not going to be using insulin in the stack then go ahead and do the same
in the morning.
What users report
Users of IGF1 have reported various results but all along the same lines, It
does not appear to be dramatically less effective in any one individual (at
least not to the best of my knowledge). I have a good friend who had to stop
taking IGF1 due to stomach illness that was completely unrelated But he to
experienced good gains from it for the 2 weeks he was on it, his dosage was
120mcg per day. One hour after the first injection he went to the gym and
immediately told me about the uncontrollable pump he got from just one set.
That would indicate to me that he was experiencing some form of cell
volumization. The general consensus on IGF1 seems to be that its benefits are as
fallow:
Increased Pump Pumps are reported to be so severe that workouts are often
cut short due to lack of ability to the muscle through the full range of
motion...ouch
Gains retention is increased if IGF is used in a cycle I am not sure why,
but IGF1 seems to make gains on a cycle stick with virtually no post cycle
loss. Every bodybuilder I've spoken with seems to think this for some reason.
Most of them use drugs like Anadrol or Dianabol with it because of the amount of
size attained with these drugs. The usual draw back to these drugs is that
in most users there is a post cycle "crash" that occurs, so the reasoning is
to toss IGF1 into the stack and grow larger faster with out the post cycle
crash blues.
Reverses testicular atrophy
Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak even in the
middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not shrink during the cycle. This
may explain partially why gains are kept after the cycle.
Fatigue
Users report feeling drained and tired all day. This seems to be one of the
negative side effects to IGF1, it will make you sleep longer and you will
require more sleep at night to feel rested for the morning. This is common with
high doses of HGH and exhibited in children, whose IGF1 levels are
extraordinarily high. A child needs 4 hours more sleep than an adult on average. This
may be directly or indirectly related to IGF1 levels.
Stiffness
An almost arthritic feeling is commonly associated with high levels of HGH,
well IGF1 has the exact same property. IGF1 will cause your hands, fingers
and knuckles to ache this is one way you can be sure you got real IGF1.
IGF-1's Side effects
Every thing has a down side. To bake a cake ya gotta break an egg. IGF1 is
no exception. The drug used in larger quantity around the 100mcg+ range will
cause headaches, occasional nausea and can contribute to low blood sugar or
hypoglycemia in some users. Although I have never heard of this first hand I'm
sure its true.
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause
hypertrophy of the gut. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of
receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal
well. This is what causes the GH gut look. You can easily avoid this by limiting
your dosages and cycle lengths. IGF1 cycles should be kept to 4-6 weeks with
4-6 weeks off in-between. IGF-1 is considerably more powerful than HGH and
you need to think of it along those lines as far as dosing goes. We all know
what too much HGH can do over prolonged periods of usage. The Neanderthal look
is definitely not going to win any shows this year. I would recommend 80 mcg
a day for 4 weeks at a time you should get good results from that for a
while. I don't know if you will need to up the dosage at any point, but I would
think in the case of IGF1 it wouldn't matter. If 80mcg doesn't do it for you,
then bump it up to 100 You should definitely feel it at this point If not
suspect the IGF1 as beingake. Beyond 120 mcg per day your asking for trouble,
This compound demands as much respect as its sister amino Insulin.
__________________
-----Original Message-----
From: George Holcombe <_geowanda at earthlink.net_
(mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net) >
To: Order Ecumenical Community <_oe at wedgeblade.net_
(mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net) >; ICA LIST SERVE <_dialogue at wedgeblade.net_
(mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net) >
Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 3:23 pm
Subject: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
This might interest those who are health conscious and use milk. It's a
statement by a former US FDA employee. Hopefully this has not spread to other
countries.
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/rBGHinDairyProducts/index.cfm_
(http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/rBGHinDairyProducts/index.cfm)
A very good book to read on food is The China Study (the most Comprehensive
Study of Nutrition Every Conducted) by T. Colin Campbell, PhD, you can get
it on Amazon.
George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Home: 512/252-2756
Mobile 512/294-5952
_geowanda at earthlink.net_ (mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net)
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