[Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
Jim Baumbach
wtw0bl at new.rr.com
Sat Jul 5 18:32:19 EDT 2008
Aw, gee Ellie, where would we get butter and ice cream if we stopped
using milk???
Jim.
Elliestock at aol.com wrote:
> chemicals or no, cow's milk is for baby cows...but neither the dairy
> industry nor Monsanto will tell you that...
> Ellie Stock
>
>
> In a message dated 7/3/2008 7:14:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
> wtw0bl at new.rr.com writes:
>
> Don,
>
> This conversation has many elements of doubt as you can imagine.
> One of the men in our Men's group is a farm animal vet and a
> farmer's accountant. His recent comments in similar discussions
> assert that there are by-products of bgh in milk but have not been
> proven to his satisfaction that they are either harmful or harmless.
>
> My concern is that there are many countries outside the influence
> of Monsanto that prohibit such stimulants in their dairy products.
> That makes me uncomfortable to assume that just because a similar
> molecule, namely insulin, is degraded in the digestive tract and
> is not given to diabetic patients orally without considerable
> protection of the molecules, it does not mean that insulin can be
> ingested directly without some harm to a person who is not
> diabetic. There is much research going on now to find an oral
> form of insulin such as incorporation in nanoparticles and that
> some studies on rats indicate that insulin absorbed through the
> gastrointestinal tract is more effective than injections or
> inhalations. But it is well known that insulin given to a healthy
> person is very dangerous. Aside from being a rather ridiculous
> idea, no doctor that I know of would ever suggest to a patient
> that it is OK to ingest insulin. Why would anyone recommend
> ingesting IGF1?
>
> The terminology used for describing the results of ingested
> insulin as "readily degraded" does not imply completely
> destroyed. Therefore, until some organization not funded by nor
> manged by such corporations as Monsanto do some fundamental
> research on the properties of ingested IGF1, I will opt to buy
> "Farmer Certified rBGH FREE" milk If you or any one else can
> prove to me, scientifically, that there is no effect of IGF1
> beyond the absolute safety which the Monsanto claims from their
> subsidized experts, then I will buy into your argument. Show me
> the objective research.
>
> Jim Baumbach
>
> Don Elliott wrote:
>> George,
>>
>> When I see something as blatantly wrong as suggesting that an
>> ingested protein, akin to insulin, is dangerous when ingested,
>> that makes me suspicious of the other data about which I know
>> little, like the pus, antibiotics, ("quiet-test), etc. I am not
>> an apologist for the FDA or Monsanto. I am just questioning the
>> veracity of this information you are passing on, because I know a
>> part of it to be absolutely false.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net>
>> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>> Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 6:43 am
>> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
>>
>> Dear Don,
>> Thanks for the update on lgf- 101. Since I don't use dairy the
>> point is moot for me, but if I did, I don't think I'd like an
>> increase of pus in my milk at the least. I'm also a bit
>> suspicious of what comes out later in such studies and why
>> Monsanto puts the "quitetest" on such info. The USFDA does appear
>> to have a grand bit of influence from the drug makers, having had
>> several friends and relatives negatively effected by some of the
>> meds hailed as saviors and later pulled off the market. I
>> remember reading similar papers written by scientists explaining
>> the harmlessness or limits and even touting the virtues of
>> various drugs or substances, which later turned out to be the
>> reverse. I would really recommend the reading of the China
>> Study. No offense intended.
>>
>>
>> George Holcombe
>> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
>> Austin, TX 78728
>> Home: 512/252-2756
>> Mobile 512/294-5952
>> geowanda at earthlink.net <mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Don Elliott wrote:
>>
>>> George, George, George,
>>>
>>> This igf-1, insulin like growth factor, is a protein which is
>>> digested in the gut and has no biologic effect on the consumer
>>> when taken by mouth. You must know that diabetics that must
>>> take insulin, require injections, because, like its cousin
>>> ilg-1, it is digested like any other protein and has no effect
>>> if taken orally. This concern about the ill effects of the
>>> igf-1 in milk does not seem credible to me.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> This may help:
>>> Post *Igf-1 101*
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> IGF1, also known as somatomedin C, is polypeptide hormone about
>>> the same size as insulin. It is produced predominantly in the
>>> liver in response to growth hormone (GH) release from the
>>> pituitary gland. Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are
>>> due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The
>>> conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different
>>> individuals but most external sources of GH convert around
>>> 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several
>>> different tissues to enhance growth. IGF1 belongs in the
>>> 'superfamily' of substances known as 'growth factors,' along
>>> with epidermal (skin), transforming; platelet derived
>>> fibroblast, nerve, and ciliary neurotrophic growth factors. None
>>> of the other factors have any bearing on exoskeletal tissue
>>> incidentally however These agents all have in common the ability
>>> to stimulate cell division, known as mitogenesis, and cell
>>> differentiation. Meaning That In the case of IGF1 which does act
>>> on muscle tissue it will initie the growth of new muscle fibers,
>>> and subsequently new receptors for testosterone. Users have
>>> unanimously concluded that it enhances cycles of steroids
>>> significantly. They also seem to be adamant about its ability to
>>> reduce fat and improve vascularity a great deal.
>>> The IGF1 Hype
>>> There is a considerable amount of hype surrounding IGF1. Every
>>> one is blaming the distended bellies of modern Bodybuilders on
>>> it. Also the freaky proportions that old bodybuilders that have
>>> been around for years are starting to attain. Anti-aging
>>> proponents are touting it as the miracle cure for every thing
>>> from Parkinson's disease to Alzheimer's. And the medical
>>> community has published numerous articles on it for its ability
>>> to cause cancer, diabetes and gigantism. While at the same time
>>> performing documented experiments on thousands of patients of
>>> muscle wasting diseases. And reporting significant turnabouts in
>>> there conditions. So what is a guy to think about IGF1 as far as
>>> athletic enhancement is concerned? Well first of all you need to
>>> know that most experiments conducted with IGF1 do not list the
>>> type of IGF used. I have written Dr. Robert Saline of the
>>> Swedish rejuvenation institute on several occasions and we have
>>> had in-depth discussions on the subject of IGF1 for physical
>>> appearance enhancement. Hfeels it would be unethical to
>>> prescribe IGF1 to a bodybuilder to increase muscle mass simply
>>> due to the fact that IGF1 has valid applications in the medical
>>> community, (Like I could give a rats ass about "ethical"). He
>>> can not argue that it is extremely effective as a promoter of
>>> muscle growth far beyond what androgens (steroids) alone can
>>> offer. Well fortunately in America IGF1 is not a drug (yet) and
>>> the FDA has no control over it as of now. This will change in
>>> the very near future however, Im absolutely sure of it.
>>> How to use IGF1
>>> Assuming that you have acquired legitimate IGF1 (R3) long chain,
>>> That's IGF1 with the binding protein added. You should take
>>> dosages ranging from 60mcg up to 120mcg per day in divided
>>> doses. One injection in the morning and again at bed time. Never
>>> exceed 120mcg in one day. IGF1 can cause serious
>>> gastrointestinal problems such as tumors intestinal swelling
>>> diarrhea and vomiting. Most IGF1 comes in a concentration of
>>> 1000mcg per ML or CC so it makes it easy to measure in an
>>> insulin syringe. 10 IU on the syringe is 100mcg. Do the math.
>>> IGF + Insulin
>>> If you plan on doing IGF1 with Insulin, listen closely IGF1 is
>>> not that expensive, sure you can get away with using less by
>>> including insulin in the stack, but IGF1 and Insulin together
>>> have a pro-insulin effect on your blood sugar balance. It can
>>> enhance the chances of a hypoglycemic episode ten fold. I would
>>> recommend against it for any one not ABSOLUTLY comfortable with
>>> insulin or IGF1.
>>> Here is how insulin and IGF1 work together. Igfbp3 is the
>>> binding protein, which allows IGF1 to remain active in the
>>> system for a long enough period of time to really work its
>>> magic. IGF1 by nature has a half-life of less than 10 minutes by
>>> its self. The molecule was so small it would escape the blood
>>> stream very rapidly. This was the reason IGF1 was so
>>> "underground". It took very frequent injections at high dosages
>>> to achieve even minimal results. Aside from this reconstituting
>>> the compound required a degree in biochemistry. This short
>>> acting version was the only IGF1 known until recently IGF1 would
>>> have been administered in 100 mcg dosages 4-6 times a day. That
>>> is a hell of a lot of IGF1. That explains a lot of the distended
>>> bellies. Now with R3 long chain IGF1 and the Binding protein
>>> IGFBP3 IGF1 will last up to 6 hours in the system. By binding
>>> IGF to the IGFBP3 you make the molecule larger and it gets
>>> trapped in the blood stream until the protein is broken down and
>>> the IGF molecule escapes. You can furtr its life by combining
>>> Insulin with it, although I hear it is very risky. Insulin
>>> prevents the breakdown of IGFBP3 and leaves the IGF1 molecule
>>> roaming free in the blood stream for longer periods of time up
>>> to 12 hours as insulin levels return to normal IGFBP3 will begin
>>> to break down and the IGF1 will escape from its bound protein
>>> IGFBP3 again having a half life of less than 10 minutes.
>>> Insulin should be taken at the normal dosage it is usually
>>> administered at minus 10% about 45 minutes prior to the IGF1
>>> infusion. Again let me remind you this can be deadly if you
>>> don't know what you are doing. And of course do not use Insulin
>>> for the nighttime injection of IGF1 by taking it in the morning
>>> you prolong the IGF1's half life to 12 hours and then take a 6
>>> hour injection, you should be fine. Hell if you want to eat a
>>> big bowl of rice and drink another 100g of simple carbs 45
>>> minutes before the bed time IGF1 infusion you could spike
>>> insulin for at least a few hours of extended IGF1 activity. If
>>> your not going to be using insulin in the stack then go ahead
>>> and do the same in the morning.
>>> What users report
>>> Users of IGF1 have reported various results but all along the
>>> same lines, It does not appear to be dramatically less effective
>>> in any one individual (at least not to the best of my
>>> knowledge). I have a good friend who had to stop taking IGF1 due
>>> to stomach illness that was completely unrelated But he to
>>> experienced good gains from it for the 2 weeks he was on it, his
>>> dosage was 120mcg per day. One hour after the first injection he
>>> went to the gym and immediately told me about the uncontrollable
>>> pump he got from just one set.
>>> That would indicate to me that he was experiencing some form of
>>> cell volumization. The general consensus on IGF1 seems to be
>>> that its benefits are as fallow:
>>> Increased Pump Pumps are reported to be so severe that workouts
>>> are often cut short due to lack of ability to the muscle through
>>> the full range of motion...ouch
>>> Gains retention is increased if IGF is used in a cycle I am not
>>> sure why, but IGF1 seems to make gains on a cycle stick with
>>> virtually no post cycle loss. Every bodybuilder I've spoken with
>>> seems to think this for some reason. Most of them use drugs like
>>> Anadrol or Dianabol with it because of the amount of size
>>> attained with these drugs. The usual draw back to these drugs is
>>> that in most users there is a post cycle "crash" that occurs, so
>>> the reasoning is to toss IGF1 into the stack and grow larger
>>> faster with out the post cycle crash blues.
>>> Reverses testicular atrophy
>>> Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak
>>> even in the middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not
>>> shrink during the cycle. This may explain partially why gains
>>> are kept after the cycle.
>>> Fatigue
>>> Users report feeling drained and tired all day. This seems to be
>>> one of the negative side effects to IGF1, it will make you sleep
>>> longer and you will require more sleep at night to feel rested
>>> for the morning. This is common with high doses of HGH and
>>> exhibited in children, whose IGF1 levels are extraordinarily
>>> high. A child needs 4 hours more sleep than an adult on average.
>>> This may be directly or indirectly related to IGF1 levels.
>>> Stiffness
>>> An almost arthritic feeling is commonly associated with high
>>> levels of HGH, well IGF1 has the exact same property. IGF1 will
>>> cause your hands, fingers and knuckles to ache this is one way
>>> you can be sure you got real IGF1.
>>> IGF-1's Side effects
>>> Every thing has a down side. To bake a cake ya gotta break an
>>> egg. IGF1 is no exception. The drug used in larger quantity
>>> around the 100mcg+ range will cause headaches, occasional nausea
>>> and can contribute to low blood sugar or hypoglycemia in some
>>> users. Although I have never heard of this first hand I'm sure
>>> its true.
>>> IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and
>>> cause hypertrophy of the gut. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow
>>> and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large
>>> intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what
>>> causes the GH gut look. You can easily avoid this by limiting
>>> your dosages and cycle lengths. IGF1 cycles should be kept to
>>> 4-6 weeks with 4-6 weeks off in-between. IGF-1 is considerably
>>> more powerful than HGH and you need to think of it along those
>>> lines as far as dosing goes. We all know what too much HGH can
>>> do over prolonged periods of usage. The Neanderthal look is
>>> definitely not going to win any shows this year. I would
>>> recommend 80 mcg a day for 4 weeks at a time you should get good
>>> results from that for a while. I don't know if you will need to
>>> up the dosage at any point, but I would think in the case of
>>> IGF1 it wouldn't matter. If 80mcg doesn't do it for you, then
>>> bump it up to 100 You should definitely feel it at this point If
>>> not suspect the IGF1 as beingake. Beyond 120 mcg per day your
>>> asking for trouble, This compound demands as much respect as its
>>> sister amino Insulin.
>>> __________________
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net
>>> <mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net>>
>>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net
>>> <mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net>>; ICA LIST SERVE
>>> <dialogue at wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net>>
>>> Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 3:23 pm
>>> Subject: [Dialogue] For all you milk lovers
>>>
>>> This might interest those who are health conscious and use milk.
>>> It's a statement by a former US FDA employee. Hopefully this
>>> has not spread to other countries.
>>>
>>> http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/rBGHinDairyProducts/index.cfm
>>> <http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/rBGHinDairyProducts/index.cfm>
>>>
>>> A very good book to read on food is The China Study (the most
>>> Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Every Conducted) by T. Colin
>>> Campbell, PhD, you can get it on Amazon.
>>>
>>> George Holcombe
>>> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
>>> Austin, TX 78728
>>> Home: 512/252-2756
>>> Mobile 512/294-5952
>>> geowanda at earthlink.net <mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dialogue mailing list
>>> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The Famous, the infamous, the lame - in your browser. Get the
>>> TMZ Toolbar Now
>>> <http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014>!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dialogue mailing list
>>> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>>
>> =
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dialogue mailing list
>> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The Famous, the infamous, the lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ
>> Toolbar Now
>> <http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014>!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dialogue mailing list
>> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1531 - Release Date: 7/2/2008 7:02 PM
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
> cars <http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007>.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dialogue mailing list
> Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1535 - Release Date: 7/4/2008 5:03 PM
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://wedgeblade.net/pipermail/dialogue_wedgeblade.net/attachments/20080705/cefc4cf9/attachment-0001.html
More information about the Dialogue
mailing list