[Dialogue] Did NOT WORK????

Mon Mar 10 12:08:02 EDT 2008

I apologize, I just thought, from some old documents that the point was not for us each to be IN ONE, but somehow to make a difference in the form and structures of the MANY, MANY OF THEM  around the country and the world.  I thought the insight, coming out of the experience of Joe and Joe in the war was that many lay people (soldiers) did not have a very good ability to grasp the significance of their faith in a complicated and global world.

  Re:  Randy's comment:  What if the new form of the local church is all those inventive community based ngo and non profits??  On the side of being Mission, every time I get Harvard Business Review I am overwhelmed by their embrace of a sort of wedge blade consciousness.

  Still, what other structure is reaching out to do the congregating task in a context welcoming of the ongoing and future activity of G - O - D as well as the past activity (as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be . . .)

Wilson Priscilla <pwilson at teamtechinc.com> wrote:
  ala Niebuhr...I would say that I am in a "church" today. We claim to be mission church on Mission Road...and we work to fulfill that claim. Plus we are pushing to put a theological base under that. We are fortunate to be where we are.  Priscilla Wilson

    On Mar 10, 2008, at 7:58 AM, R Williams wrote:

  Where do we find the "church" (ala Niebuhr) today?  It is seems not to be, with some noteworthy exceptions, the cigar boxes with steeples, and I am "in a church" to use Dick's words.  Randy

Richard Alton <dick_alton at hotmail.com> wrote:     Margaret, you must be right! The only problem with Jim is that he is not in a church! Dick

Richard H.T. Alton International Consultants and Associates 'building global bridges' 166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 T:1.773.344.7172 richard.alton at gmail.com Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back Babe Ruth

---------------------------------
  From: aiseayew at netins.net
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:06:59 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Did NOT WORK????

  Jim, surely you did not say that.  Some one of those fundamentally sinful people John mentioned commandeered your computer, right?

  I just finished a four meeting strategic planning with my smallest congregation.  There are only fifteen members.  We met with never more than seven at a session through blizzards, ice storms, blizzards and frigid cold.  Only one member (and myself) were at every session.  Ten of the fifteen were there for at least one session.  They struggled with vision, but they really got into the contradictions and concluded that they were not out to declare the Word with every activity of the church and that they had not embraced the new challenges of their diversity.  This was in adddition to confessing that they were tired and skeptical of a plan that might demand more than they had left to offer.

  I could talk about the authenticity of this process and struggle for hours.  I couldn't be more proud.  We decided on two new events, a regular study that will last six weeks starting after Easter and two Family Fun Saturday afternoons that will reach out to the whole neighborhood.  We'll evaluate in six months and see where we are.  That they managed to move off the dime is miraculous.  That the church has been their sustenance for centuries, that they are still sustaining it and waiting, willingly praying is equally miraculous.

  The journey to Jerusalem never ends.  We are once again on our way to Jerusalem and I have been asking for most of a lifetime of myself and others if we were ready, truly ready for the crucifixion. This last week I was so sick with the flu and trying to take a relationship to Lazarus' story that it felt like a mighty intervention of the father himself and his question has been, Are we ready for the resurrection?
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James Wiegel 
  To: Colleague Dialogue 
  Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fine editorial

too bad the local church / galaxy strategy did not work.  There would be ecclesiolas in every "cigar box with a steeple" at every cross roads and local caring people all across the country would have  access to a deeper formation in what is going on than seems currently available re:  depth study, reflection, conversation, etc.  

John Cock <jpc2025 at triad.rr.com> wrote:     Amen! to a fine editorial, Diann. Thanks. 

  But believe there is and will be more villainous, depraved, and vicious stuff coming than just slurs about racism, sexism, religionism, Christianity-ism, USA-ism, military-industry-ism, party-ism, and my-candidate-ism. Hate, divisiveness, and profiteering can't wait to get out of the box -- with campaign permission -- and go crazy.

  Is this sort of evil potentially in all of us? Nah! Sounds like hard-core, die-hard, fundamental sin to me.

---------------------------------
  From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of McCabe, Diann A
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:11 PM
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fact Check re: Obama

    Nicholas Kristof says what I had wanted to say:

  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/opinion/09kristof.html?th&emc=th

  --Diann McCabe

---------------------------------
  From: McCabe, Diann A
Sent: Fri 3/7/2008 1:57 PM
To: Diann McCabe
Subject: FW: [Dialogue] Fact Check re: Obama

------ Forwarded Message
From: Karl Hess <khess at apk.net>
Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:45:53 -0500
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fact Check re: Obama

Diann,

"Enlighten" is part of the problem.  In my view a big part.  If you read "The Political Brain" by Drew Westen, you will see that there is abundant data showing that people make up their reasons to support their prejudices. Ben Franklin said it well, "So convenient a thing it is to be a rational creature, since it enables us to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to." The guy who wrote "What's the Matter with Kansas" thought the way most liberals have thought for the last 40 years and that's why the Republicans have won most of the presidential elections.  Obama gets it.  I don't think Hilary does.

I've read several books on neuropsychology recently and they all find the same phenomenon.  In fact one neuroeconomist found that the standard "rational man" assumed by economists only applies to autistic people.  That's why the so many economics Nobels lately have gone to people who have been disproving traditional economics assumptions.  Economics turns out to be a philosophy pretending to be a science.  "Adam's Fallacy" is also a good read.

The people who "put this stuff out" are using the fear 'frame' to win elections.  If we continue to assume voters are going to be rational, they will continue to win elections.

Karl

  Yes, it's disturbing that whoever is putting out this stuff assumes that a "Muslim" is someone to be feared and loathed.  We have much work to do to enlighten people about how we as "Christians" have many, many connections to the Islamic faith.--Diann

On 3/6/08 1:29 PM, "facilitationfla at aol.com" <facilitationfla at aol.com> wrote:
  Thanks, Del,
Yes, this is disgusting.  Another paper (similar to National Enquirer) had a front page headline last month: "Obama's hidden ties to Al Queda".  Last week -- again on the front page it had a photo of a grizzled white guy with the headline, "I slept with Obama".  I went to the Publix store manager and told him he shouldn't be selling such trash in our community.
Cynthia
  This appeared in the newspaper February 28.  I just hadn't had a chance to send it on until now.

FACT CHECK

Some of the rumors and allegations about Barack Obama are clearly not true, yet still spread, often anonymously.

1.  A debunked chain e-mail circulating widely suggests he is hiding his Islamic roots.  It says he was sworn into the Senate on the Quran and turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance.  Actually, he took his Senate oath with his hand on a family Bible, and he says, "Whenever I'm in the United States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America."

2.  Another false report says he attended a Muslim madrassa as a child in Jakarta.  Obama was born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he was 6 to live with his mother and stepfather. He returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents.  Interviews last year by the Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and secular institution and has been open to students of all faiths since before Obama attended in the late 1960s.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Del Morrill <del at hypnocenter.com>
To: Order Ecumenical <OE at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 1:56 pm
Subject: Fact Check re: Obama

This appeared in the newspaper February 28.  I just hadn't had a chance to send it on until now.

FACT CHECK

Some of the rumors and allegations about Barack Obama are clearly not true, yet still spread, often anonymously.

1.  A debunked chain e-mail circulating widely suggests he is hiding his Islamic roots.  It says he was sworn into the Senate on the Quran and turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance.  Actually, he took his Senate oath with his hand on a family Bible, and he says, "Whenever I'm in the United States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America."

2.  Another false report says he attended a Muslim madrassa as a child in Jakarta.  Obama was born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he was 6 to live with his mother and stepfather. He returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents.  Interviews last year by the Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and secular institution and has been open to students of all faiths since before Obama attended in the late 1960s.                                                     (from the Associated Press)

Del Hunter Morrill
3217 North Mason Ave
Tacoma, WA 98407 USA
H:(253)752-1506, O:(253)383-5757
http://www.hypnocenter.com <http://www.hypnocenter.com/>  

There can be nothing to frighten you if you refuse to be afraid. (Mahatma Gandhi)

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        So convenient a thing it is to be a rational creature, since it enables us to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to. - Ben Franklin

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