[Dialogue] Did NOT WORK????
Adelbert Batica
abatica at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 10 20:10:39 EDT 2008
Folks,
Wiegel will always be part of the Church. I think we need to "re-chart" and discuss the Niebuhr paper, and one more time...de-mythologize "church". BTW, who has an extra copy of the paper?
Addi
in Minneapolis
From: KroegerD at aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:32:19 -0400
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Did NOT WORK????
If there is a "renewed" church in the Minneapolis area, I'd like to know
the name.
Dick Kroeger
In a message dated 3/10/2008 7:59:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rcwmbw at yahoo.com writes:
Where do
we find the "church" (ala Niebuhr) today? It is seems not
to be, with some noteworthy exceptions, the cigar boxes with steeples,
and I am "in a church" to use Dick's words.
Randy
Richard Alton <dick_alton at hotmail.com> wrote:
Margaret, you must be right! The only problem
with Jim is that he is not in a church! Dick
Richard H.T. Alton
International Consultants and Associates 'building global bridges' 166 N.
Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 T:1.773.344.7172
richard.alton at gmail.com Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back
Babe Ruth
From: aiseayew at netins.net
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Date: Sun, 9
Mar 2008 20:06:59 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Did NOT WORK????
Jim, surely you did not say that. Some
one of those fundamentally sinful people John mentioned commandeered your
computer, right?
I just finished a four meeting strategic
planning with my smallest congregation. There are only fifteen
members. We met with never more than seven at a session through
blizzards, ice storms, blizzards and frigid cold. Only one member
(and myself) were at every session. Ten of the fifteen were there
for at least one session. They struggled with vision, but they
really got into the contradictions and concluded that they were not out to
declare the Word with every activity of the church and that they had not
embraced the new challenges of their diversity. This was in
adddition to confessing that they were tired and skeptical of a plan that
might demand more than they had left to offer.
I could talk about the authenticity of this
process and struggle for hours. I couldn't be more proud. We
decided on two new events, a regular study that will last six weeks
starting after Easter and two Family Fun Saturday afternoons that
will reach out to the whole neighborhood. We'll evaluate in six
months and see where we are. That they managed to move off the dime
is miraculous. That the church has been their sustenance for
centuries, that they are still sustaining it and waiting, willingly
praying is equally miraculous.
The journey to Jerusalem never ends. We
are once again on our way to Jerusalem and I have been asking for most of
a lifetime of myself and others if we were ready, truly ready for the
crucifixion. This last week I was so sick with the flu and trying to take
a relationship to Lazarus' story that it felt like a mighty
intervention of the father himself and his question has been, Are we ready
for the resurrection?
-----
Original Message -----
From:
James Wiegel
To:
Colleague Dialogue
Sent:
Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject:
Re: [Dialogue] Fine editorial
too bad the local church / galaxy strategy did not
work. There would be ecclesiolas in every "cigar box with a
steeple" at every cross roads and local caring people all across the
country would have access to a deeper formation in what is going
on than seems currently available re: depth study, reflection,
conversation, etc.
John Cock
<jpc2025 at triad.rr.com> wrote:
Amen! to a fine editorial, Diann. Thanks.
But believe there is and will be
more villainous, depraved, and vicious stuff coming than
just slurs about racism, sexism, religionism, Christianity-ism,
USA-ism, military-industry-ism, party-ism, and my-candidate-ism. Hate,
divisiveness, and profiteering can't wait to get out of the
box -- with campaign permission -- and go
crazy.
Is this sort of evil potentially in all of us? Nah!
Sounds like hard-core, die-hard, fundamental sin to
me.
From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of McCabe,
Diann A
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:11 PM
To:
dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fact Check
re: Obama
Nicholas Kristof
says what I had wanted to say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/opinion/09kristof.html?th&emc=th
--Diann McCabe
From: McCabe, Diann A
Sent:
Fri 3/7/2008 1:57 PM
To: Diann McCabe
Subject: FW:
[Dialogue] Fact Check re: Obama
------ Forwarded Message
From:
Karl Hess <khess at apk.net>
Reply-To: Colleague
Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar
2008 17:45:53 -0500
To: Colleague Dialogue
<dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fact
Check re: Obama
Diann,
"Enlighten" is part of the
problem. In my view a big part. If you read "The Political
Brain" by Drew Westen, you will see that there is abundant data
showing that people make up their reasons to support their
prejudices. Ben Franklin said it well, "So
convenient a thing it is to be a rational creature, since it enables
us to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to."
The guy who wrote "What's the Matter with Kansas" thought the way most
liberals have thought for the last 40 years and that's why the
Republicans have won most of the presidential elections. Obama
gets it. I don't think Hilary does.
I've read several
books on neuropsychology recently and they all find the same
phenomenon. In fact one neuroeconomist found that the standard
"rational man" assumed by economists only applies to autistic people.
That's why the so many economics Nobels lately have gone to
people who have been disproving traditional economics assumptions.
Economics turns out to be a philosophy pretending to be a
science. "Adam's Fallacy" is also a good read.
The people
who "put this stuff out" are using the fear 'frame' to win elections.
If we continue to assume voters are going to be rational, they
will continue to win elections.
Karl
Yes, it's disturbing that whoever is putting
out this stuff assumes that a "Muslim" is someone to be feared and
loathed. We have much work to do to enlighten people about how
we as "Christians" have many, many connections to the Islamic
faith.--Diann
On 3/6/08 1:29 PM,
"facilitationfla at aol.com" <facilitationfla at aol.com>
wrote:
Thanks, Del,
Yes, this is disgusting.
Another paper (similar to National Enquirer) had a front
page headline last month: "Obama's hidden ties to Al Queda".
Last week -- again on the front page it had a photo of a
grizzled white guy with the headline, "I slept with Obama".
I went to the Publix store manager and told him he shouldn't
be selling such trash in our
community.
Cynthia
This appeared in the newspaper February
28. I just hadn't had a chance to send it on until
now.
FACT CHECK
Some of the rumors and
allegations about Barack Obama are clearly not true, yet still
spread, often anonymously.
1. A debunked
chain e-mail circulating widely suggests he is hiding his
Islamic roots. It says he was sworn into the Senate on the
Quran and turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of
Allegiance. Actually, he took his Senate oath with his
hand on a family Bible, and he says, "Whenever I'm in the United
States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
States of America."
2. Another false report
says he attended a Muslim madrassa as a child in Jakarta.
Obama was born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he
was 6 to live with his mother and stepfather. He returned to
Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents.
Interviews last year by the Associated Press at the
elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and
secular institution and has been open to students of all faiths
since before Obama attended in the late 1960s.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Del Morrill
<del at hypnocenter.com>
To: Order Ecumenical
<OE at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 1:56
pm
Subject: Fact Check re: Obama
This appeared in the
newspaper February 28. I just hadn't had a chance to send it
on until now.
FACT CHECK
Some of the
rumors and allegations about Barack Obama are clearly not true,
yet still spread, often anonymously.
1. A
debunked chain e-mail circulating widely suggests he is hiding his
Islamic roots. It says he was sworn into the Senate on the
Quran and turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of
Allegiance. Actually, he took his Senate oath with his hand
on a family Bible, and he says, "Whenever I'm in the United States
Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America."
2. Another false report says he
attended a Muslim madrassa as a child in Jakarta. Obama was
born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he was 6 to live with
his mother and stepfather. He returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to
live with his maternal grandparents. Interviews last year by
the Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found
that it is a public and secular institution and has been open to
students of all faiths since before Obama attended in the late
1960s.
(from
the Associated Press)
Del Hunter Morrill
3217 North Mason
Ave
Tacoma, WA 98407 USA
H:(253)752-1506,
O:(253)383-5757
http://www.hypnocenter.com <http://www.hypnocenter.com/>
There can be nothing to frighten you
if you refuse to be afraid. (Mahatma
Gandhi)
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So
convenient a thing it is to be a rational creature, since it
enables us to find or make a reason for everything one has a
mind to. - Ben
Franklin
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