[Dialogue] Need a quote

Wayne Nelson wnelson at ica-associates.ca
Mon Oct 27 15:43:27 EDT 2008 

Heidegger and Sartre were among Joe¹s prime sources. He didn¹t reference
them directly, but he read and interpreted them in his own way.

Our Happy Birthday song is one of the prime examples. ³Being-here²  - - -
Heidegger¹s ³Dasein² ­ Sartre¹s concept of ³pour soi² - being for itself ­
we celebrate you as a self-conscious, self reflective being.  David Mc also
said that Being and Time was one of Joe¹s main sources for the NRM Being
lecture. If only there wer the time to unravel that thread.

\\/


"Carolyn Antenen"  wrote:

> This is an amazing discussion that I'm going to draw on for the Antenen clan
> conversation during Thanksgiving.
> Ann just gave us her complete files from Academy.  
> 
> Although Jay Sr. has struggles with memory, this type of topic usually elicits
> gems of insight or poetry from him.
> 
> My oldest son, Jay III, was a Philosophy Politics and Economics major, and
> studied Heidegger for a semester at Oxford University.
> Can't wait to share this connection to EI curriculum and hear his and our
> other 2 sons perspectives (Donald was at Global Conference 
> in Guatemala and Henry's Freshman Seminar at Bard College looks like the
> Academy's reading list ). 
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> 
> On Oct 27, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Richard Alton wrote:
> 
>> Great!, Wayne. I took a graduate course on Heidegger's "Being and Time". It
>> was pure fog, but great that we may of had some foundation in his work. I am
>> amazed that you had enough stuff upstairs to see through the fog..good work!
>> Dick
>> 
>> Richard H.T. Alton International Consultants and Associates 'building global
>> bridges' 166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 T:1.773.344.7172
>> richard.alton at gmail.com Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back
>> Babe Ruth
>> 
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:27:44 -0400
>> From: wnelson at ica-associates.ca
>> To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Need a quote
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  Here¹s another angle on this question.  
>>  
>>  On one of David McClesky¹s visits to visit Kendra in Toronto, we asked him
>> about the foundations and origins of the ³Focused Conversation ­ Art-form²
>> method. We were  working on ³The Art of Focused Conversation² at the time and
>> trying to get a hook on Joe¹s approach to phenomonology. David sent us to
>> several sources. One of them was Heidegger¹s  ³Being and Time²,  an extremely
>> dense, dizzyingly complex and intimidating work.
>>  
>>  In the final section of the book, he uses 3 key terms.
>>  
>>  ³Now-no-longer²
>>  ³Just-now²
>>  ³Now-not-yet²
>>  
>>  He also uses a pile of others to talk about our individual and collective
>> self-conscious relationship to time and history.   
>>  
>>  I couldn¹t find a nice clear paragraph. As near as I can tell, Heidegger has
>> no crisp, quotable, short paragraphs. :)  He also uses a lot of linguistic
>> constructions that are attempts to break out of traditional thinking ­
>> difficult reading. Perhaps if I had more ³Just-now² time.
>>  
>>  It is clear, however, that he is talking about the relationship to time we
>> take as self-reflective entities - ³Dasein.²  He is speaking primarily to our
>> individual relationship to past-present-future. It seems to me that what Joe
>> did was to stretch those notions to the sociological and say that is the view
>> of history for self-conscious people committed to making something happen in
>> the world. The ³infinity² sign that always places us in the ³Just-now² is
>> related to this.
>>  
>>  I remember going to Joe¹s apartment in 341 Homan to repair a broken window.
>> Probably about this time in 1970. There was Joe, sitting ins his lungi with
>> piles of books and papers spread over a desk and a table. (The TV was also
>> on.) As I worked on the window, I saw him looking from one to another and
>> making notes. I don¹t know what he was working on, but he was really hard at
>> it. 
>>  
>>  Joe was always interested in making things accessible to everyone. He was
>> also very graphic. I can imagine him flipping back and forth between Bultman
>> and Heidegger and others ­ probably Bering and Nothingness by Sartre which
>> address this as well -  and doodling on paper in an attempt to make grounded
>> sense of these ideas. Making pictures is one of the only ways to penetrate
>> some of this stuff. Otherwise it all looks like weird abstractions. He did it
>> for almost everything and, as a result, gave us ways to navigate the rough
>> waters of life¹s key existential questions. Not answers, paddles.
>>  
>>  These are all what I call ³back bearings²  and speculative explorations, but
>> it makes a lot of sense to me.
>>  
>>  \\/
>>  
>>  "David Walters"  wrote:
>>  
>>  
>>> Maybe this will help. It is from John Cocks blog. Especially the last
>>> sentence.
>>>   
>>>  The meaning of the theme ³Man [sic] between the Times² is at first simple
>>> to determine.... [T]he notion of an ³interim² ­ a time that is neither past
>>> nor future, and yet both ­ [is an] understanding of the paradoxical
>>> existence of man ... [the] certainty of the unconditionedness of the divine
>>> demand and the divine grace.... [F]or him who lets God be his God, the past
>>> is extinguished and the future is open. ~Rudolf Bultmann, ³Man Between the
>>> Times...,² Existence and Faith, pp. 248, 252, 253
>>>  CArlos wrote:
>>>   
>>>  
>> 
>>  < >  < >  < >  < >  < >
>>  Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
>>  416-691-2316 - http://ica-associates.ca
>>  
>>   
>> 
>> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how
>> <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/>
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> 
> 
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< >  < >  < >  < >  < >
Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
416-691-2316 - http://ica-associates.ca


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