[Dialogue] Need a quote

Mon Oct 27 15:59:35 EDT 2008

Now that you mention it I do remember Heidegger mentioned frequently by JWM
and seem to remember some printed excerpts from Being and Time.

Carlos R. Zervigon, PMP

Zervigon International, Ltd.

817 Antonine St.

New Orleans, LA  70115  USA

504 894-9868 Mobile: 504 908-0762

carlos at zervigon.com

http://www.zervigon.com

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Nelson
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:43 PM
To: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Need a quote

Heidegger and Sartre were among Joe's prime sources. He didn't reference
them directly, but he read and interpreted them in his own way. 

Our Happy Birthday song is one of the prime examples. "Being-here"  - - -
Heidegger's "Dasein" - Sartre's concept of "pour soi" - being for itself -
we celebrate you as a self-conscious, self reflective being.  David Mc also
said that Being and Time was one of Joe's main sources for the NRM Being
lecture. If only there wer the time to unravel that thread.

\\/

"Carolyn Antenen"  wrote:

This is an amazing discussion that I'm going to draw on for the Antenen clan
conversation during Thanksgiving.
Ann just gave us her complete files from Academy.  

Although Jay Sr. has struggles with memory, this type of topic usually
elicits gems of insight or poetry from him.

My oldest son, Jay III, was a Philosophy Politics and Economics major, and
studied Heidegger for a semester at Oxford University.
Can't wait to share this connection to EI curriculum and hear his and our
other 2 sons perspectives (Donald was at Global Conference 
in Guatemala and Henry's Freshman Seminar at Bard College looks like the
Academy's reading list ). 

Carolyn

On Oct 27, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Richard Alton wrote:

Great!, Wayne. I took a graduate course on Heidegger's "Being and Time". It
was pure fog, but great that we may of had some foundation in his work. I am
amazed that you had enough stuff upstairs to see through the fog..good work!
Dick

Richard H.T. Alton International Consultants and Associates 'building global
bridges' 166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 T:1.773.344.7172
richard.alton at gmail.com Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back
Babe Ruth

  _____  

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:27:44 -0400
From: wnelson at ica-associates.ca
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Need a quote

 Here's another angle on this question.  

 On one of David McClesky's visits to visit Kendra in Toronto, we asked him
about the foundations and origins of the "Focused Conversation - Art-form"
method. We were  working on "The Art of Focused Conversation" at the time
and trying to get a hook on Joe's approach to phenomonology. David sent us
to several sources. One of them was Heidegger's  "Being and Time",  an
extremely dense, dizzyingly complex and intimidating work. 

 In the final section of the book, he uses 3 key terms. 

 "Now-no-longer"
 "Just-now"
 "Now-not-yet"

 He also uses a pile of others to talk about our individual and collective
self-conscious relationship to time and history.   

 I couldn't find a nice clear paragraph. As near as I can tell, Heidegger
has no crisp, quotable, short paragraphs. :) He also uses a lot of
linguistic constructions that are attempts to break out of traditional
thinking - difficult reading. Perhaps if I had more "Just-now" time. 

 It is clear, however, that he is talking about the relationship to time we
take as self-reflective entities - "Dasein."  He is speaking primarily to
our individual relationship to past-present-future. It seems to me that what
Joe did was to stretch those notions to the sociological and say that is the
view of history for self-conscious people committed to making something
happen in the world. The "infinity" sign that always places us in the
"Just-now" is related to this.

 I remember going to Joe's apartment in 341 Homan to repair a broken window.
Probably about this time in 1970. There was Joe, sitting ins his lungi with
piles of books and papers spread over a desk and a table. (The TV was also
on.) As I worked on the window, I saw him looking from one to another and
making notes. I don't know what he was working on, but he was really hard at
it. 

 Joe was always interested in making things accessible to everyone. He was
also very graphic. I can imagine him flipping back and forth between Bultman
and Heidegger and others - probably Bering and Nothingness by Sartre which
address this as well -  and doodling on paper in an attempt to make grounded
sense of these ideas. Making pictures is one of the only ways to penetrate
some of this stuff. Otherwise it all looks like weird abstractions. He did
it for almost everything and, as a result, gave us ways to navigate the
rough waters of life's key existential questions. Not answers, paddles.

 These are all what I call "back bearings"  and speculative explorations,
but it makes a lot of sense to me.

 \\/

 "David Walters"  wrote:

Maybe this will help. It is from John Cocks blog. Especially the last
sentence.

 The meaning of the theme "Man [sic] between the Times" is at first simple
to determine.... [T]he notion of an "interim" - a time that is neither past
nor future, and yet both - [is an] understanding of the paradoxical
existence of man ... [the] certainty of the unconditionedness of the divine
demand and the divine grace.... [F]or him who lets God be his God, the past
is extinguished and the future is open. ~Rudolf Bultmann, "Man Between the
Times...," Existence and Faith, pp. 248, 252, 253
 CArlos wrote:

 < >  < >  < >  < >  < > 
 Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
 416-691-2316 - http://ica-associates.ca

  _____  

You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how
<http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/>
<http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/> 
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net

  _____  

_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/dialogue_wedgeblade.net

< >  < >  < >  < >  < > 
Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
416-691-2316 - http://ica-associates.ca

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wedgeblade.net/pipermail/dialogue_wedgeblade.net/attachments/20081027/2635eaee/attachment-0001.html>