[Dialogue] To Adam, Jon, Frank and Margaret

[George Holcombe]

To Adam, the expression sh__ hitting the fan is the metaphor (I think)  
used in the article on the schism in the Episcopal family, no doubt  
indicating that the rupture and all that goes with it is just  
beginning to be felt.

To Margaret and Jon.....One of the great theological struggles has  
been the whole notion of righteousness.  Wesley and others speak of  
righteousness being from God and only "imputed" to humans, i.e.,  
righteousness is not something we possess, but possesses us, or at  
least something we may seek.  Thus, we have self-righteousness, what  
we claim or assert for ourselves, our group, our theologies, politics,  
etc.  Generally speaking, we assign righteousness to someone in  
retrospect as a tribute to a quality of life, a gift or a historic  
accomplishment that saved something for the future, and not something  
we claim for ourselves.  We are in a time of extremely careless  
theology, if not really bad theology by the general society as well as  
the major religions.

We are terribly anxious about the future.  There is this general  
notion that the future is ours for the taking; in fact,  we must take  
it, or someone else will take it from us, but it is not a matter of  
intention, invention, struggle, sacrifice and responsibility (Jon's  
gentleness, the power of loving, even your enemies), it is a matter of  
grasping it, much like taking a product off the shelf and putting it  
in your basket.  There is the feeling abroad that we are "righteous"  
by virtue of our beliefs, our religion, politics, our experience,  
where we live, just being me, etc.  And when our "righteousness" does  
not bring all it was supposed to, we can really get upset, especially  
with those we don't think are "righteous."  The nastiness Margaret  
experienced may be mild in comparison to what the U.S. has set itself  
up for, not only in this election, or economic downturn, but the way  
this nation has come to think about itself and the world.

To Frank, I and several of us older folks in the Order were children  
of the depression (at least the tail end of it for me, right before  
WWII).  It was a scary time in many ways, my Dad did not always have a  
job, my mother worked as a waitress, which paid little.  People coming  
through town looking for work often slept in our house or apartment  
(we moved around a lot).  Sometimes we had a car, sometimes not.   
Extended families (probably the last of it in the U.S.) stuck  
together.  As Joe Mathews used to say, we ate a lot of "gravy" (I  
think he used another word) on our bread or potatoes.  Our family was  
fortunate in that we had kin "on the farm" and when it got too bad in  
the city we could live on the farm (there was always plenty of food  
there) until Dad found his next job.  Most of the U.S. now living did  
not experience the depression, but rather the explosion of materialism  
that began in the late 40's, however, the stories of the depression  
may strike much more fear in us, and move the financial sector and the  
government to act out of their fears more than their common sense.

The Order has prepared us for what is before us in more ways than we  
can imagine.


George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Home: 512/252-2756
Mobile 512/294-5952
geowanda at earthlink.net


On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:45 AM, jonzondo at juno.com wrote:

> those that cling to fear divide and divide and break off from the  
> group... creating smaller and smaller little islands of  
> righteousness... even while the group they break off from often  
> invites them into dialog and discussion... inviting them into the  
> future, into respect for the grand diversity.
>
> Is this the 100... 200 .... year plan for those who cling to black  
> and white thinking?
>
> There is a thought that gentleness and kindness can gently call out  
> the divine soulful loving one within many who live in fear.  I have  
> seen it.  It does happen.  Change happens.  Paradigms shift.
>
> Where is my own righteousness keeping me from viewing something  
> through the glasses of love?
>
> Walk in Beauty,
> Jon Mark Elizondo
> ____________________________________________________________
> Bills adding up? Click here for free information on payday loans.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m3aOnTapgoLXa6J1iiDyNxmLikN5CQlpnrv06FK4l5HpBPb/
> How can a schism hit a fan...?
>
> At 19:07 23/09/2008, you wrote:
>> Jefferts Schori removes Pittsburgh bishop from office
>> Duncan led effort to take diocese out of Episcopal Church
>>
>> By Mary Frances Schjonberg
>>
>> September 22, 2008 [Episcopal News Service] Robert Duncan has been
>> given a formal sentence of deposition from the ordained ministry of
>> the Episcopal Church and has been removed as the bishop of the  
>> Diocese
>> of Pittsburgh.
>>
>> Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori signed Duncan's sentence  
>> on
>> September 19, the day after the House of Bishops agreed by a vote of
>> 88-35 to authorize the action. Bishop Richard S.O. Chang, vice
>> president of the house, and Bishop Kenneth Price, the secretary, also
>> signed as witnesses to the sentence.
>>
>> The sentence and an accompanying letter from Jefferts Schori to  
>> Duncan
>> were sent to Pittsburgh diocesan offices on September 22 and later
>> released to the public.
>>
>> The Rev. Dr. Charles Robertson, canon to the Presiding Bishop, told
>> ENS that the Presiding Bishop signed the deposition before leaving  
>> for
>> meetings with the Church of Sweden directly from the House of  
>> Bishops,
>> "but she chose not to release it out of consideration for Duncan  
>> until
>> he had been notified, which was done via his office [September 22]."
>>
>> In the sentence Jefferts Schori declares that "from and after 12:01
>> a.m., Saturday, 20 September, 2008, Bishop Duncan shall be deprived  
>> of
>> the right to exercise the gifts and spiritual authority of God's word
>> and sacraments conferred at ordination in this Church and further
>> declare[s] that all ecclesiastical and related secular offices held  
>> by
>> Bishop Duncan shall be terminated and vacated at that time."
>>
>> Robertson said that diocesan staff were contacted September 22 and
>> told that the sentence of deposition was on its way to their offices.
>> Robertson said he did not know if Duncan was aware of the effective
>> date of the deposition before he received the sentence.
>>
>> The diocesan Standing Committee, now the ecclesiastical authority in
>> the diocese, will meet September 23 in a regularly scheduled
>> gathering, the Rev. David Wilson, committee president, told ENS.
>> Wilson said that Standing Committee members would discuss the details
>> of the diocesan convention, scheduled for October 4, at which the
>> deputies will be asked to approve resolutions (see resolutions one,
>> two and three here) re-aligning the diocese with the Anglican  
>> Province
>> of the Southern Cone of southern South America.
>>
>> A September 18 news release posted on the diocese's website said that
>> "Bishop Duncan's own continuing status as a bishop in The Anglican
>> Communion has been secured by the Province of the Southern Cone" and
>> quoted Southern Cone Primate Gregory Venables as saying that
>> "effectively immediately" Duncan was a member of that House of  
>> Bishops.
>>
>> "Neither the Presiding Bishop nor the House of Bishops of the
>> Episcopal Church has any further jurisdiction over his ministry,"
>> Venables claimed.
>>
>> In a September 18 statement issued after the House of Bishops vote,
>> the Pittsburgh Standing Committee said that Duncan would "continue to
>> support the work of our diocese under the terms of his administrative
>> employment agreement and within the bounds of his deposition,
>> providing many of the services that he previously performed for the
>> diocese."
>>
>> Meanwhile, a group called "Across the Aisle" issued a statement
>> September 22 saying that Jefferts Schori's office had informed the
>> group of the sentence of deposition via a phone call that afternoon.
>> "The direct communication is further evidence of the Presiding
>> Bishop's recognition that Across the Aisle is the primary group
>> working to maintain a diocese in Pittsburgh that is part of the
>> Episcopal Church, even if the existing diocese votes at its upcoming
>> convention to realign with an Anglican province in South America,"  
>> the
>> statement said in part.
>>
>> The Presiding Bishop had singled out the group during her September  
>> 19
>> remarks to reporters after the end of the House of Bishops meeting,
>> calling it "a remarkable example of cooperation across a variety of
>> differences of opinion."
>>
>> Jefferts Schori said during the news conference that the Episcopal
>> Church would support efforts to reorganize the diocese should
>> delegates vote for re-alignment.
>>
>> "The Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh will not go away, even if their
>> convention makes a canonically inappropriate vote to secede" from The
>> Episcopal Church (TEC), she said during the news conference.
>>
>> Robertson told ENS September 22 that "the Presiding Bishop's office  
>> is
>> communicating regularly with a group of leaders in the Diocese of
>> Pittsburgh who, despite holding diverse opinions and positions, are
>> committed to remaining in the Episcopal Church."
>>
>> In the letter to Duncan which accompanied the sentence, Jefferts
>> Schori noted "the prayerful and thoughtful atmosphere of the
>> discussions" leading up to the bishops' authorization of the  
>> deposition.
>>
>> "In their deliberations at the special session last week, the House  
>> of
>> Bishops was clear that this action is based on Robert Duncan's  
>> actions
>> and statements to facilitate the departure of congregations out of  
>> the
>> Episcopal Church," Robertson told ENS. "This was not based on Robert
>> Duncan's theological position." Duncan has taken a conservative  
>> stance
>> on such issues as church attitudes toward homosexuality.
>>
>> The Title IV Review Committee had certified in December that Duncan
>> had abandoned the communion of the Episcopal Church under the terms  
>> of
>> Canon IV.9.1 "by an open renunciation of the Doctrine, Discipline, or
>> Worship of this Church."
>>
>> The Presiding Bishop moved to inhibit Duncan (restrict his episcopal
>> acts) during the time between the certification and the time she
>> brought the matter to a meeting of the house. However, the House's
>> three senior bishops could not agree unanimously with Jefferts
>> Schori's request. The canon on abandonment does not call for a formal
>> trial, as do the disciplinary canons.
>>
>> John H. Lewis, Duncan's attorney, said in a September 18 statement
>> that was posted on the diocese's website September 22, that Duncan
>> "was denied his fundamental right -- the right to a church trial …
>> because the Presiding Bishop believes that his 'deposition' will
>> assist her in her desire to seize the property of the Diocese of
>> Pittsburgh."
>>
>> -- The Rev. Mary Frances Schjonberg is Episcopal Life Media
>> correspondent for Episcopal Church governance, structure, and trends,
>> as well as news of the dioceses of Province II. She is based in
>> Neptune, New Jersey, and New York City
>>
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