[Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
James Wiegel
jfwiegel at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 30 14:54:47 CDT 2009
Yes, the right to struggle for life, for liberty, for the pursuit of happiness, in short, the right to participate in the social process . . .
Elaine Stover sent a great piece from John McKnight of ABCD fame (Asset Based Community Development) and their movement's sense of what is needed from the perspective of community.
Albeit, when I was in Israel, the group of us facilitator types were talking about the future and the complexities of health care, etc. and thought we should form a commune of some sort where we could live together and see after our own care.
Since I am the oldest in the group, I asked if anyone there had skill in taking care of incontinent old men. Well, the group thought, maybe we could form our commune next to one that was good at that . . . reminded me of conversations in the 80's about the dissolution of OE . . . whatever spiritual, philosophical approach you take, caring for those who need care takes an effort. Where is there enough "glue" for that? families?, clans?, if we can't generate sufficient capacity for this to actually happen at some more intimate level, is there a viable alternative to legislation and taxation?
Jim
Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. G. K. Chesterton
Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:
From: Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Cc: "'Colleague Dialogue'" <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 12:31 PM
Perhaps I should explain that I do want everyone to eat,
absolutely. I've spent much of my life working on that. Is
it a right? No. I think we need to define what me mean by a "right"
and whether it is government that fulfills all needs.
Susan
Susan
Fertig-Dykes
tel:
(703) 751-5956
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of James
Wiegel
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:22 AM
To: Order
Ecumenical Community
Cc: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: [Oe
List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
I found myself struggling with this in early July, near
Jerusalem, in working with a pilot for bringing together the sides in the
Israeli - Palestinian conflict. With people in violent conflict, it
is not clear that there is anything "in common" on which to base decisions
for the future. It was pointed out that using "rights" language puts
people into the position of being ready to fight for what they see as
justice, whereas using the language of basic human needs puts people in
more of a place to inquire what is possible.
Even so, what
are these basic human needs and who is the guarantor? Even in the
constitution they were stated as "self evident"
Maybe there is
something deeper going on in this shrill American debate? I wonder
if anyone who has been studying The Big Sort might have a
thought?
Jim
Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a
pun. G. K. Chesterton
Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way,
Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-936-8671 +1
623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com
www.partnersinparticipation.com
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Susan
Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:
From:
Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...]
Bill Alerding
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'"
<oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 11:35
AM
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No.
Susan Fertig-Dykes
tel: (703) 751-5956
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of A.M.
Noel
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:26 PM
To:
'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill
Alerding
Yes
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Susan
Fertig
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 AM
To:
'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill
Alerding
Do we have a right to eat?
Susan Fertig-Dykes
tel: (703) 751-5956
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Tracy E.
Longacre
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:31 AM
To:
'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill
Alerding
Why?
Maybe because, like rain, much disease, injury, illness, etc. rains on
all, regardless of ability to pay. If you have a right to eat but no
right to health care, what’s the point?
Of
course, we all know that, despite the fact that we spend our tax dollars
pushing governments around the world to believe and provide healthcare
as a right, this is not in fact true in the US.
Tracy E. Longacre
from Bukavu, DR Congo
Blog: http://telglobal.vox.com
Run Blog: http://revruns.blogspot.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlongacre/
Want to receive monthly updates on me and my work? send an e-mail to:
telupdates-subscribe at topica.com
When
it is over, I don't want to wonder if I have made of my life something
particular, and real. I don't want to find myself sighing and
frightened, or full of argument.
- Mary Oliver
From:
oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On
Behalf Of Susan Fertig
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009
3:43 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject:
Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
Why?
Susan
Fertig-Dykes
tel:
(703) 751-5956
From:
oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On
Behalf Of William Alerding
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009
2:20 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: [Oe
List ...] Bill Alerding
As Ted Kennedy so well said: "Healthcare in a right
of all the people, not a priviledge"
i
Bill Alerding
On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:18 PM, David Walters
wrote:
All the
Healthcare belongs to all the people.
David
Walters
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