[Dialogue] 5-21-09: Spong, Being Interviewed in Bethlehem on the Birth Narratives of Jesus

[elliestock at aol.com]

[Book by Borg/Crossan, The First Christmas, addresses this--E. Stock]


May 21, 2009



Being Interviewed in Bethlehem on the Birth Narratives of Jesus




On Tuesday of Easter Week, my wife and I made our way to Bethlehem, a journey that carried us across the checkpoint and into the West Bank. That transition did not prove to be a major problem. The Israeli government is not too strict about who goes from Israel to the West Bank, but when one goes from the West Bank back into Israel it is a different story. On our return our car was stopped and searched. Each of us was screened and interrogated. The process took fully thirty minutes before we were allowed to continue. Bethlehem is only a few miles from Jerusalem and today is a much larger town than in the days of Jesus' birth, when it had less than a thousand residents. Other than our desire to see this ancient town, around which so many emotions have been wrapped in Christian history, the primary purpose for our stopover in Bethlehem was to be interviewed by a New Zealand producer, Bryan Bruce, whose Red Sky company was doing a television documentary on "The Historical Jesus." He wanted to discuss the historicity of the birth narratives as recorded only in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. He scheduled this interview to take place in Bethlehem's historic Church of the Nativity which, we were told, was built over the exact spot where the stable stood in which the Christ Child was born. There was, he thought, no better place20in which to talk about the birth of Jesus if one wanted to be authentic. He assumed that the stories of Jesus' birth were themselves authentic. 



The interview thus took place in that setting as tourists and pilgrims passed us constantly, eager to see the place where Jesus was born. Among the things these tourists and pilgrims were told was where each of the Wise Men stood when presenting their gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Frankincense and myrrh were also for sale everywhere, though gold was in short supply. No one could see the hillside on which the shepherds were supposed to have watched their flocks by night and to whom the angelic message was supposedly given, because the city of Bethlehem has grown so large that this hillside is now in the town itself and is well developed. 


The first question the New Zealand producer asked, while an Israeli camera crew recorded this interview for posterity, was "How much of the birth narratives about Jesus are true?" "Almost none of it," I responded, "other than the fact that Jesus was actually born." Jesus was, I am persuaded, a person of history, but beyond that there are no trustworthy details in the familiar birth narratives found in Matthew and Luke, despite their enormous popularity. 



No interviewer wants to stop a documentary after one question so he began to probe, asking me to flesh out my answer. The first and original birth of Jesus story was written by Matthew, I went on to say. People are, however, far less fami
liar with Matthew's story than they are with Luke's because Luke's story forms the basis of our annual Christmas pageants, which have traditionally been the means of riveting these stories on our minds. Only Matthew's Wise Men are normally dramatized in our seasonal pageants. I have never seen Herod's slaughter of the Jewish male babies in Bethlehem, which is part of Matthew's account, acted out in any Christmas pageant presented anywhere. People are, therefore, not generally aware of the fact that Matthew assumes that Joseph and Mary were permanent residents of Bethlehem, dwelling in a house that was so specific that a star could actually stop over it and bathe that house in its light in order to show the Wise Men where they were to dismount and present their gifts. The Wise Men never came to a manger. Because Matthew appeared to be sure that Mary and Joseph were residents of Bethlehem, he had to develop a story to get them back to Galilee, since it was a fact that Jesus was called "Jesus of Nazareth" not "Jesus of Bethlehem." 



Luke, on the other hand, believed that Mary and Joseph lived permanently in the village of Nazareth, but since the tradition asserted that the messiah must be both the heir to King David's throne and be born in David's birthplace, the village of Bethlehem, Luke had to develop a story that would get the holy couple to Bethlehem in time for the birth to occur there. Luke strains credibility in this story of why Mary and Joseph had to journey to Bethlehem to mak
e this birth occur in the right town. He did so by appealing to a census, ordered, he said, when Quirinius was governor of Syria, in which he claims it was mandated that all of King David's descendants had to return to their ancestral home to be enrolled. There are two things that are very wrong with this story line. First, there were 50 generations between David and Jesus. King David had many wives in his harem and produced many children, perhaps as many as 300. In 50 generations, there would be about 10 billion direct heirs of King David. Not only did no one keep such records in those days, but no governor in his right mind would undertake to order such a nonsensical decree. If all the direct heirs of King David had actually returned to Bethlehem, it would be no wonder that no room was available at the inn! The second problem for Luke was that we have learned from secular records that Quirinius did not become governor of Syria until 11 years after the death of King Herod. If the gospels are accurate that Jesus was born when Herod was king, then Jesus would have been 11 years old when Quirinius supposedly issued his strange decree. The facts simply do not add up to being history. Luke and Matthew, however, knew they were not writing history, they were interpreting the adult power of the man Jesus and reading it back into the mythical stories of his birth, so these minor details did not bother them in the slightest. They become problems only when someone tries to claim literal h
istory for these legends of Jesus' birth. All birth stories are by their nature myths. No one gathers outside a birthplace waiting for a great person to be born. Only when a life becomes great does the moment of his or her birth take on cultural significance. 



When one goes to Israel and embraces the rugged terrain and the mountainous regions around both Nazareth and Bethlehem, then one also knows intuitively that Joseph would not have taken his wife, who was, as Luke says, "great with child," on this almost 100-mile donkey ride over a period of seven to ten days, in order to fulfill the prophecy that the messiah must be born in David's city of Bethlehem! History this is not. 



As the conversation continued, other details revealing the legendary character of these stories poured forth. No star in the sky announces a human event. Stars are not, as some ancient people thought, lanterns hung out by a deity above the sky to celebrate a human achievement. The Jews, however, were used to the pattern of using stars in their legends to announce the birth of such heroes as Abraham, Isaac and Moses. Magi do not follow stars, which travel so slowly across the sky so that they can keep up with them, in order to search for a newborn King of the Jews. That is the stuff of Aesop's Fables. This is especially obvious when Matthew, who is the only one to give us the story of the Wise Men, tells us later (Chapter 13) that Jesus was actually the son of a carpenter. A wicked King Hero
d does not set forth to decimate the ranks of Jewish male babies because he has heard that a pretender to his throne has been born in his realm. Virgins do not conceive except in popular legends, and the Bible, contrary to what Matthew asserts, does not predict that a virgin will do so. Matthew bases his claim for the historicity of the virgin birth by quoting a text from Isaiah (7:14), which Matthew translated to read, "Behold a virgin will conceive." Unfortunately, that is not what Isaiah wrote. His exact words are, "Behold a woman is with child." They are hardly the same thing. We Christians have known that since Trypho, a Jew, informed Justin (known today as Justin Martyr) of the Matthean mistake around the year 120 CE. That work is called "Dialogue with Trypho." 



In the course of this interview, the literalized birth narratives were exposed for what they are, traditional legends employed to prepare the readers of these two gospels to hear about the dramatic and extraordinary life of Jesus of Nazareth. The ancient world was full of this kind of thing. Matthew also drew on sources that his Jewish audience would recognize. So the story of the wise men was created out of Isaiah 60, where kings come to the "brightness of God's rising" and bring gold and frankincense. His readers would hear a familiar Moses story in the narrative of Herod killing the boy babies in Bethlehem. Matthew was signaling his intention of interpreting Jesus as a new Moses. In the service of that theme he has Jes
us flee to Egypt to escape Herod's wrath so that Jesus can relive the exodus history of Moses and the people of Israel, about whom Hosea the Prophet had God say, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." 



Luke opens his story of Jesus' birth by suggesting that the parents of John the Baptist repeated the story of Abraham and Sarah, who had a son despite being well advanced in years. Next, Luke wraps some of the biblical material about a child named Samuel around Jesus. The song of Mary that we call the "Magnificat" was modeled on the song sung by Hannah, the mother of Samuel, when her barrenness was overcome. The old priest Eli to whom Samuel is entrusted was put into Luke's genealogy as Jesus' grandfather and then replicated in the old priest named Simeon, who holds the Christ child and sings, " Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace? for mine eyes have seen thy salvation." Finally, Luke's story of Jesus going to the Temple at the age of 12 is modeled on Samuel going to the temple when he comes of age. 



For two hours this interview went on as tourists and pilgrims flooded into the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem to see the place where Jesus entered history. Most of them will never see the documentary that was being filmed that day. I suppose it is just as well, for the tourist trade supports the people of Bethlehem. 



The fact, however, remains that in all probability, Jesus was actually born in Nazareth! Shall we sing "O Little Town of Nazar
eth" next Christmas? 


– John Shelby Spong 





Question and Answer
With John Shelby Spong



Dear Lancer 92112, via the Internet, writes: writes:

In an interview with Beliefnet, Hans Kung said that the Vatican knew for decades about sexually abusive priests and the Bishops' mishandling of them. In you opinion, why did they allow the situation to continue for so long?

Dear Lancer 92112, 

Hans Küng is probably the world's most quoted theologian in the 20th century. A professor of Catholic Theology at the University of Tübingen, he was one of the obvious and clear leaders of the Second Vatican Council that began the Reformation of the Catholic Church under the great Pope John XXIII. He was later removed from the position as Catholic theologian in a purge of liberal thinkers instigated by John Paul II and carried out by Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, who now rules the Vatican as Benedict XVI. 



I have read most of his work. I had him lead a clergy conference for the clergy of my diocese shortly after he was purged. I have also attended lectures he gave at Union Theological Seminary in New York. We have eaten meals together on three occasions. I tell you these things to let you know of my great admiration and deep affection for Hans Küng. I also suggest that he knows more about the inner workings of the Roman Catholic Church, so that if he said the things attributed to him in the Beliefnet interview, I would be certain they were accurate. 



I a
m quite certain that sexually abusive priests were well known to Catholic authorities for years. There was a history of bishops and archbishops moving offending clergy to another jurisdiction rather than confronting the issue. My guess is that both the abuse and the cover-up were quite systemic, far more prevalent than has yet been admitted or faced. Perhaps that is the clue to their allowing it to continue. If it was as widespread as we now believe, it must have involved people in high places, including bishops, archbishops and cardinals. A thorough investigation and a complete and honest admission might well have constituted so severe a threat to the life and integrity of that noble institution that they deemed their needs better served by dishonesty rather than honesty, by cover-up rather than admission. Of course, in the long run, the integrity of the Church itself is eroded and the exodus of members that begins as a trickle and ends with a flood. 



I do not think Roman Catholic officials have yet understood how many lay people were alienated from the Church by this behavior. Nor do I believe that thus far there has been anything like a full disclosure, so the issue will not end yet. Catholic piety has required the repression of healthy sexuality for service in this institution. Unfortunately, when healthy sexuality is repressed, unhealthy sexuality always rises. Repressed sexuality comes back as pornography and child abuse. Perhaps the place where Rome ought to begin is to ask why sexual abstinence or
 celibacy is a prerequisite for leadership. I think that is where sickness enters the tradition. 



Thanks for raising the issue.


–John Shelby Spong







 

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"The Pope," says the publisher about this new edition, "describes the ancient traditional Jesus. John Shelby Spong brings us a Jesus by whom modern people can be inspired." Newly published in paperback, Jesus for the Non-Religious is now available in Bishop Spong's online store. 

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