[Dialogue] ToP Methods

[W. J.]

Wayne's post about the 'RS-1 cannon' reminds me of a Looney Tunes cartoon ("Rabbit of Seville") in which Bugs and Elmer go at each other with larger and LARGER cannons.
Causing some of us to laugh at the absurdity of some of these images.
For me the RS-1 canon (such as it is: the limits / possibilities / decisions of life) needs no defense -- in response to lingo like "philosophical – theological mumbo jumbo".
So whatever happened to Lingo anyway? Anybody heard of him recently?
Marshall


________________________________
From: Wayne Nelson <wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
To: Terry Bergdall <bergdall at gmail.com>; Bill Parker <bparker175 at cox.net>; Lawrence Philbrook <larry at icatw.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:56:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] ToP Methods


"Terry Bergdall"  wrote:


Wayne could post the thread on the Linked-In Group as it now stands and invite people to respond.
>
>- - - - - - - - - - 
Done. It tool a lot of posts, but it’s there on Linked In.   

The name of the group on Linked In is “ToP Trainers Network” 

Try this:


	* Go to - http://www.linkedin.com/ 
	* Join or log in 
	* Click “Groups” on the left menu 
	* Click “Find a Group” in the “Groups Directory” on the right. 
	* Enter ToP Trainers Network into the search field on the right – under “Search Groups” 
	* When you find it on the list, click the name. 
	* Click “Join the group” and follow the instructions.

I think it is a moderated group requiring permission to join. Bill Davis set it up, I believe. 



I think the conversation can continue here as well.



My summary of the conversation to date


To me, there are 2 key questions raised in this dialogue. Perhaps there are others, but these seem to be the primary threads. I think this conversation is more related to facilitation than training, but the membranes are somewhat porous. 
>
>>1. How do we use the Existential – Experiential Aim in our ToP facilitation work? 
>
>	* How do you determine it for a group?  
>
>	* How do you use it in preparing to facilitate? 
>
>	* How do you use it as the session is going on? 
>
>	* How do you use it in assessing the effectiveness, results and impact of the event? 
>
>>2. What is the impact of ToP methods on individual and organizations. 
>
>
>	* What is the “Existential” impact of ToP facilitation?  
>
>	* Do people make basic changes in their relationship to the topic and to their group” 
>
>	* Do ToP methods play a real role in making a culture change that is positive, progressive and leads to more human, humane, productive, healthy workplaces? 
>

A couple thoughts 

I did not intend to spark anything like or even close to a debate when I asked my question about the origins of the Rational and Existential Aims.  I’m asking the question in order to work it into a paper on the foundations of ToP methodology. I’m trying to dig down to the understandings and sources that led us to incorporate these elements into our work.  I want to work how they can be best articulated and used in the 21st century. I can and am reading the sources I mentioned. I am forming my own theories as I dig around, but I know there are people in this group with longer memories and greater understanding than mine and I’d love to hear their wisdom. I am deeply grateful for these comments, because they have all given me clues. 

I’m not sure the comparison between RS1 and ToP facilitation is an entirely appropriate one.  They are quite different things - -  born in different times, developed out of different strategies and created with different groups in mind.  They have very different intents and making direct comparisons is, to me, quite dicey.  Some connections do actually turn out to be invalid. To make value judgments is certainly not my intent, nor do I think it it is really in our interest. to do so. I remember Joe Slicker recently saying something like, “Celebrate what has been and let it go – utterly and completely. Live in the now and build for the future.”

To me, if you’re teaching RS1, you have RS1 type existential objectives.  If you’re facilitating a workshop designed to shape a legislative / public policy framework for wildlife management or create strategy for an assisted living project or design a distance education program, your existential aim is going to be related to the specifics of those situations  and the groups involved in those inquiries – their reality – their history - their contradictions – their opportunities – their mandates and intentions etc. What you believe or pray to 5 times a day is irrelevant.

To try to have people embrace RS1 type understanding in a ToP facilitation event would be so far off target to be almost laughable.. If fact it would be truly sad. How do you work out the existential questions your group is facing? To me, trying to squeeze them into an RS1 mold would violate the very nature of the understanding out of which the idea was created. It would be taking an essentialistic approach - as if there were some eternal answers somewhere and all people need to do is get in alignment with these eternal truths. The approach we are working from is ontological.. We look at what is going on in the situation itself as it presents itself and work from that point.  

I believe having access to the deep background of where these ideas came from will help us do better work with our current clients. It will help them address the “inescapable life questions” that will make a difference for that group and will last for them. It will be integrated into their work and their life together.  If the groups we work with face the existential questions raised by their own life situation in ways that are authentic and produce results that make their workplace and the world they touch a more human place, I don’t give a rat’s a** if they can recite the RS1 cannon or any other philosophical – theological mumbo jumbo. 

\\/ 

< >  < >  < >  < >  < > 
Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
ICA - 416-691-2316 - - - Cell – 647-229-6910
http://ica-associates.ca
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