[Dialogue] Can I get arrested for doing an artform conversation?

Tue May 25 16:37:15 CDT 2010

That Western was probably "High Noon" which we had in our 1963 Detroit RSI.

Len

On 5/21/2010 10:39 AM, David Walters wrote:
> While Mathews was in Texas he, Lewis and the others  began showing a 
> movie, a western I believe, and started doing a conversation about it. 
> They rented the 16mm film from a company that rented films to schools, 
> churches, etc. In the shipping container was always a sheet of paper 
> with a set of suggested discussion questions. This sheet was usually 
> discarded. At some point someone, probably Joe Pierce, decided to read 
> it and realized that there was more there than met the eye. There was 
> always fouur questions and they always seem to ollow a certain order. 
> Thgereupon, they all sat down and held one of the earliest problem 
> solving units or PSU. What  they  came up with was the artform method 
> of ORID method
> David Walters
> Wayne wrote:
>
>
> David Kolb published /Experiential learning: Experiece as the source 
> of learning and development/ in 1984 through Prentice-Hall.
> ce, decided to reaad it and realized that
> I spoke with David McClesky about the origins of our method several 
> years ago.  He said the the O-R-I-D methodology was pretty firmly in 
> place when he entered the Order in 1959.
>
> When I asked David about the sources, he said, as near as he could 
> tell, JWM put it together working with material from Soren Kierkegaard 
> (primarily Sickness unto Death), Edmund Husserl (Ideas Pertaining to a 
> Pure Phenomonology and to a Phenomonological Philosophy), Martin 
> Heidegger (Being and Time) and Jean-Paul Sartre (Being and 
> Nothingness.)  These people we among the key figures in the branches 
> of philosophy we call phenomonology and existentialism. Some say that 
> SK was the first to break through into this area and I tend to agree. 
> Husserl is often called the 'Father of Phenomonology."  There are 
> clearly elements from all of them in this methodology. David also 
> mentioned that Being and Time was one of Joe's key sources for the NRM 
> "Being" lecture.
>
> He also used a lot from Rudolph Bultman, particularly in the area of 
> demythologizing biblical literature and relating gospel to existential 
> questions.  Interestingly enough, one of Bultman's key sources for the 
> actual methodology in demythologizing came from Heidegger. He 
> obviously got a great deal from HR Neibur, largely in the area of 
> ethics. Along with Tillich, Bohhoffer and R Neibur, they were the 
> leading Christian existentialists.
>
> Another one of what I believe to be a key source was "How to Read a 
> Book" by Mortimer Adler. He and his brother encountered it in graduate 
> school. You'll find a nice write up of that experience in Bishop Jim's 
> book, "Brother Joe."  That book led to what we know today as 
> "charting."  The charting methodology dovetails really well with the 
> demythologizing process and the approach we used in RS1 seminars. Duh! 
> !  There were several other sources related to our overall methodology 
> and certainly to our application of it and the myriad of forms it has 
> taken.
>
> I believe the crucible for this work was the classes Joe taught at 
> Perkins and the teaching - spirit formation work he did in the Faith 
> and Life Community.  It was not simply drawn together by inuition 
> either. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that Joe was as major 
> scholar. Try even reading some of that stuff, much less make sense of 
> it. It's damn hard slogging. To have taken these very abstract ideas 
> from philosophy and theology and refined them into the simple, elegant 
> methodology we have today evokes real awe in me. Genius entirely.
>
> In reading their original work, I am firmly persuaded that Joe and 
> whoever else, likely Jack Lewis, created a unique form of 
> phenomonological inquiry.  It has morphed and changed very little over 
> the years. We've used a few different terms for some of the "levels" 
> because we've focused its use on both spiritual formation and 
> practical planning.  i.e. Demythologizing a biblical passage requires 
> a different set of questions than planning strategies.
>
> I'm working on an essay about all this, but it is not really in shape 
> for wide distribution yet. It has led me to some really interesting 
> discoveries, but the one relevant to this conversation is that the 
> core and basic application of this methodology was not taken directly 
> from any specific source. It was created.
>
> We know that there have been many parallel developments of this 
> nature.  It is really important to distinguish between correspondences 
> and the thing itself. There are a lot of similarities. Edgar Schein 
> and Kolb are the two most well known. There are several others formats 
> that go through a similar set of developmental movements. They are 
> similar and they inform us in our explanation and use, but they are 
> distinct and different in several subtle ways.  "This" may seem like 
> "that", but it would be a mistake to say "this is that" without a 
> deeper look.
>
> We can cast our eyes down, twist on our toe and sweetly say, "Aw 
> shucks, it wasn't really us." all we like, but it was "us" - well, 
> mostly Joe. Not only was it us, it continues to be us who work with 
> this living material and continue to deepen our understanding of it, 
> use it and refine it.
>
> That is not to say, in any way, that there is any justification 
> whatsoever for treating our collegues disrespectfully. That whole 
> episode, as I see it, was completely unrelated to anything related to 
> methodology or copyright or anything of the sort. It was more, I 
> believe, the fallout from unresolved economic and polity related 
> problems.  Remember in the old days -- when people started complaining 
> about the food; you knew there were deeper problems afoot that needed 
> addressing.
>
> Just sayin'
>
> \\/
>
>
> < > < > < > < > < >
> Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
> ICA - 416-691-2316 - - - Cell -- 647-229-6910
> http://ica-associates.ca
>
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