[Dialogue] Alinsky, the disestablishment

Fri Jan 14 12:28:55 CST 2011

Just one other thought, and this may be a bit of a stretch.  But what if a one-time community organizer became President of the United States and as such, was severely criticized by the left wing of his own party as well as the entirety of the other party.  Would that make him transestablishment?  Just asking.

Randy

--- On Fri, 1/14/11, R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Alinsky, the disestablishment
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 12:19 PM

Many will remember the movie Little Big Man which dramatized, as we saw it, the transestablishment stance.  The main character, Jack Crabb, played by Dustin Hoffman, was a white man, raised by Indians, who crossed back and forth across the river from one culture to the other.  What we articulated from that is that those in the transestablishment have no place of their own to stand but rather stand with one foot in each the establishment and disestablishment.  So the establishment thinks they're disestablishment, and the disestablishment thinks they are establishment.  Which are they?  Neither and both.  Thus, George's earlier statement, that the transestablishment does not disparage either of them and in fact embraces and lives in the tension between them.  We always caught flak from people like Alinsky and the IAF, and at the same time from the institutional church and academia because both camps identified us as being with the other.

Randy

--- On Fri, 1/14/11, elliestock at aol.com <elliestock at aol.com> wrote:

From: elliestock at aol.com <elliestock at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Alinsky, the disestablishment
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 11:52 AM

Very interesting conversation re Alinsky/ICA approaches and methods--much appreciated.  In much of our local church/community context we take the transestablishment approach.  Relative to some community issues we work with the Gamaliel Foundation (Chicago) (and local affiliates)--an offshoot of Alinsky and parallel group to IAF.  We also use a community organizing approach with our presbytery's Peru partnership as it relates to dealing with lead contamination issues by the same US-owned/based company in both Missouri and Peru.

Ellie Stock

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Fisher <hkf232 at gmail.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Springboard Dialogue <springboard at wedgeblade.net>; m.george.walters <m.george.walters at gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:10 am
Subject: [Dialogue] Alinsky, the disestablishment - Rick Loudermilk?

Friends,

This my first posting in many years.

Beret gave me the link so that I could ask you all if anyone knew how to connect with Rick Loudermilk. 

So it was fun to see the Alinsky Dialogue pop up.

This is my little bit to contribute on this subject.  And I suppose, to some extent, within the context of OE, EI and ICA, I was the disestablishment.

While at university in the mid sixties, I was involved with the Student Christian Movement, New Left and the Anti-War Movement, mostly in Canada.  In 1964 I was a fund-raiser for SNCC - the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee - tackling voter registration in  Mississippi.  Some of my friends went there.

As an activist, in the fall of '67(?) I was attending a conference in Moncton, New Brunswick (of all places) and was a workshop leader.  Saul was the main speaker and later I was on a panel with him.  I had already had RS1 and asked Saul if he knew of EI - Chicago.  He was vague.

When moving to Chicago in May of '68, I was surprised at the approach to social change.  It was cultural first - not overtly dealing with 'the class struggle'.  Indeed, I found little interest about Saul Alinsky or the disestablishment approach.  The best light on this is illuminated by George's comment below.  EI worked for change through 'symbol is the key' - with a change in community 'possibility' and identity - significant economic and political change could follow.  In my limited experience with the Human Development Projects, the need for ICA legitimacy meant that a 'realistic' relationship with the 'establishment' (e.g. the secret service in Korea) meant that we were almost exclusively working under the umbrella of the establishment, not over against it.  The change we were espousing was from 'within' - to create a virus of possibility within the Petri dish of the established way of living.  Bill says it well.

In my experience, the 'disestablishment' mostly regarded us with suspicion and distain because we were neither rhetorically nor politically active in directly challenging the 'establishment'.  This was very problematic in our work in the UK.

I remember calling Fifth City from the Madison House in the early 70s saying that I had just met with Fannie Lou Hamer and that she would be willing to come to Fifth City for a visit and to speak.  Those in charge at that time did not know who she was, nor did they seem to know much about voter registration in Mississippi.

On another occasion a mixed racial South African couple, engaged in anti-aparthied activities explored seeking refuge at 3444 Congress Parkway.  They were not welcome.  Practically speaking, their mission was different than ours.

Rules for Radicals is still happily on my bookshelf.  And, since the 60s, I have embraced the 'trans-establishment' posture - hopefully, along with the Communion of Saints.

Grace and peace,

Ken Fisher

hkf232 at gmail.com
613.279.1902

1070 Elizabeth Street
Box 75
Sharbot Lake ON
K0H 2P0

On 2011-01-13, at 11:24 AM, Janet Sanders wrote:

In the early 90's some of the movement folks in Omaha, Nebraska joined with the parish movement component of Alinsky's work.  Rev Don and Marlene Johnson were quite involved at the time.  When I visited my brother in the Omaha area I got updates from the Johnson's.  It was influential for several years.  Jan

Janet A. Sanders

From: m.george.walters at verizon.net
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net; springboard at wedgeblade.net
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:31:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [Springboard] [Dialogue] Alinsky & Freire and ICA's approach

Disestablishment posture and tactics on the part of many, not just Alinsky, was seminal input to our thinking that derived the Trans-establishment posture. Establishment, Disestablishment and Trans-establishment postures and tactics are always options in any given ethical context. No right/wrong or good/bad can be assigned to any of the three. I believe in an ethical context, when analyzing a situation, they are points of identity. When determining action, they are elements of choice.

George

M. George Walters

4240 Sandy Shores Dr
Lutz, FL 33558
USA
Tel: +1 (813) 948-7267
Fax: +1 (813) 333-1787
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URL: www.ResurgencePublishing.com
Professional Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgwalters

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Martin Gilbraith (ICA:UK)
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 08:22
To: Colleague Dialogue; Springboard Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Springboard] Alinsky & Freire and ICA's approach

Hi all, thanks for all your responses so far, its all very intersting to me,
Martin

On 12/01/2011 22:35, Len Hockley wrote:
There is also a great story (true or not) about Alinsky and King meeting in O'Hare airport just before the housing march.  

It seems King was carrying on about how his movement was so "grassroots and unstructured" and Alinsky comes back and says "The only movement without structure is cow shit."

Len

On 1/12/2011 11:13 AM, Bill Schlesinger wrote:
The primary difference between our approach and Alinsky’s (who did not lecture in any early Academy I remember in the 60’s) was methodological, not an establishment/disestablishment orientation.  Alinsky’s approach depended on a responsive establishment that would not simply shoot organizers.  It relied – as did Ghandi’s and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s approaches – on the moral values perceived by the establishment system.  ‘Rub raw the sores of discontent’ was intended to energize marginalized communities to a level of dissatisfaction with the ‘status quo’ that would then provide the emotional strength to make specific demands of the ruling elite, and to expose contradictions of normative value within the ruling elite in order to create open dissension and a change of practice in that elite.  That was a basic strategy of the Civil Rights movement.

Our approach – ‘locality development’ in social service literature – was more focused on organizing available resources within the marginalized community (‘Every local community can feed itself’) and creating a partnership with identified elements in the wider society.  The intent was to develop an approach that did not rely on a specific response from the governing elite (‘OK, OK, we’ll put a stop sign on the corner’).

Bill Schlesinger
Project Vida
3607 Rivera Avenue
El Paso, TX 79905
(915) 533-7057 x 207
(915) 533-7158 FAX
pvida at whc.net
www.projectvidaelpaso.org

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Len Hockley
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:43 AM
To: Colleague Dialogue
Cc: Springboard Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Springboard] Alinsky & Freire and ICA's approach

For what it is worth, it has been noted that Alinski was a lecturer a one of the early Academys.  Also, he did early work in Detroit where we had his people come and talk with us.  As I remember it he was a bit too disestablishment for the likes of us.

I looked up the IAF in Portland (OR) within the last 15yrs were they were still active in parishes.
Len

On 1/11/2011 8:28 AM, R Williams wrote:

Martin,

There are those who will be able to address your questions much more directly than I, but here's one strand you might pursue.  If you Google "Industrial Areas Foundation" (IAF) and go to the Wikipedia page you will find reference to Ernesto Cortes, Jr. as the Alinski protege who took Alinsky's approach from the 1940s and in San Antonio, TX made it a congregation-based process.

Ernesto (Ernie) Cortes went to RS-1 in the late 60s or early 70s and at one time was a part of the San Antonio cadre.  When I was in the Houston house I remember him from various meetings in San Antonio.  If you could find a way to get in touch with him you might get some answers to your question as far as Alinsky is concerned.  I expect what he may be able to share with you ways in which EI/RS-1, etc. influenced his work in deciding to be congregation-based as well as that of IAF in general.

As for Freire, his book Education for Critical Consciousness must have had an influence in our development of imaginal education, not just the course but the process used in our whole educational approach, although we referred more to Kenneth Boulding and The Image.  His later book, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, although I believe not published at the time, is consistent with, but in some ways clearer than, his earlier book.

Randy

--- On Tue, 1/11/11, Martin Gilbraith (ICA:UK) <martin at ica-uk.org.uk> wrote:

From: Martin Gilbraith (ICA:UK) <martin at ica-uk.org.uk>
Subject: [Springboard] Alinsky & Freire and ICA's approach
To: Dialogue at wedgeblade.net, "Springboard Dialogue" <springboard at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 9:46 AM

Hi everyone, I am hoping that colleagues with longer memories might be able to help me with some history please...

The 'big idea' of the UK's new coalition government is Big Society - variously, applauded as empowering the people, and/or derided as a cynical cover for devastating public spending cuts - see http://www.ncvo-vol.org.uk/policy-campaigns-research/big-society/big-society

A major initiative within this agenda is a forthcoming Government-funded programme to train and support a cadre of 5,000 Community Organisers, explicitly based on the principles of Saul Alinsky and Paulo Friere - see http://www.urbanforum.org.uk/briefings/community-organisers-briefing

I beleive that Friere was an influence on the early development of EI/ICA's methods and approach, and I understand that Alinsky was developing Community Organising in Chicago around the same time as EI/ICA was in Fifth City.  

What I would really like to learn more about is to what extent and how did Friere and/or Alinsky influence the develpment of EI/ICA and our methods and approach; and to what extent and how might our methods and approach have influenced the development of Community Organising?

My partner Derek put this same question, more or less, to George Packard several years ago when he was here in the UK just after Derek had taken a course in Faith-based Community Organising through his local Unitarian church - but I don't much remember what he said, and I'd love to have any more specific recollections and (better still) any documents that might be relevant.

I am hoping this might inform how we seek to position ICA:UK in relation to this emerging new agenda, and that I might draft an article (for ICA:UK Network News if not also elsewhere) based on what I receive.

many thanks for any recollections or insights you can offer, best wishes,
Martin

--

Martin Gilbraith <martin at ica-uk.org.uk>
connect with me at http://uk.linkedin.com/in/martingilbraith
Chief Executive, ICA:UK
registered charity #1090745 & company limited by guarantee #3970365
registered in England & Wales, at 41 Old Birley Street, Manchester M15 5RF
tel/fax: 0845 450 0305 or 0161 232 8444 - www.ica-uk.org.uk
The Institute of Cultural Affairs (ICA) - a global network of autonomous not-for-profit organisations in 30 countries
"concerned with  the  human  factor  in  world development"
IAF Certified Professional Facilitator & Chair
The International Association of Facilitators – www.iaf-world.org
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Martin Gilbraith <martin at ica-uk.org.uk>
connect with me at http://uk.linkedin.com/in/martingilbraith
Chief Executive, ICA:UK
registered charity #1090745 & company limited by guarantee #3970365
registered in England & Wales, at 41 Old Birley Street, Manchester M15 5RF
tel/fax: 0845 450 0305 or 0161 232 8444 - www.ica-uk.org.uk
The Institute of Cultural Affairs (ICA) - a global network of autonomous not-for-profit organisations in 30 countries
"concerned with  the  human  factor  in  world development"
IAF Certified Professional Facilitator & Chair
The International Association of Facilitators – www.iaf-world.org
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