[Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

Fri Oct 28 23:00:03 EDT 2011

Was it Mary Klepser? She wrote a lot of songs around that time. Ann Stewart Shafer

From: dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of elliestock at aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:06 PM
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

There's no hope, yet all is hopeful, then no cares, there are no problems

No enemies, no earthly foes, and I, I am the struggle at the center tranquil.

                                    ~"At the Center Tranquil" (Tune:  Shenandoah)

One of my favorite songs--anyone know who wrote it?

Ellie

-----Original Message-----
From: John Cock <jpc2025 at triad.rr.com>
To: 'Colleague Dialogue' <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:23 pm
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

I’m not sure I know what I’m talking about, but will add 2cents worth. A little contextual statement first (as I watch the wild World Series game).

*****

Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? 

       ~JWM, “The Heavenly Vision,” para. 10, Priors’ Council, 3/10/75 (Thanks, Jack.)

“Hope beyond hope” does not depend on me nor anything related to me in this world, finally—faith, spiritual practices, family, sociality, therapies. “Hope beyond my hope” is not hoping the future will turn out the way I pray, but that hope will forever be part of reality, regardless of what I want. Bottom line: I do not engineer hope. 

“Hope beyond my hoping” is hope of the Other World that sometimes appears to me in This World. Like grace, hope is always present now, as utter gift, unmerited. And “hope beyond my hope” does not disappoint.

Hope appears when it appears. It happens or does not happen. Yet, it is forever at the heart of existence, always at the heart of my present situation, in spite of my despair and hopelessness. 

O Thou, I hope. Help Thou my hopelessness.

*****

Go Cardinals. I have a bet on you. I hope you win.

John

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From:  <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net> dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [ <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net?> mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Bill Schlesinger
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:54 PM
To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

Hopelessness is despair.  Hope is a wish dream – and we all know how God relates to visionary dreamers.  Conquering hope is acknowledging and embracing the knowledge that the dark abyss will claim us and all our works – and trusting ourselves to that destiny without escaping its compassion, or the responsibility of being linked to all that is that it thrusts upon us.  In a three story universe, we may hope for heaven and fear hell.  In this universe, we can only trust in the wonder and mystery that – often – appears as the abyss.  

Whether we die of cancer or boredom, we will certainly die.  Kaz claims that dying one way ‘fructifies the earth.’  Seems to me to be a good way to go.

Bill Schlesinger

Project Vida

3607 Rivera Avenue

El Paso, TX 79905

(915) 533-7057 x 207

(915) 533-7158 FAX

 <mailto:pvida at whc.net> pvida at whc.net

 <http://www.projectvidaelpaso.org/> www.projectvidaelpaso.org

  _____  

From:  <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net> dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [ <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net?> mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of John Cock
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:22 PM
To: 'Colleague Dialogue'
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

This is a good stream. Started me brooding on the "hope beyond hope." When did we use that phrase?

John

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From:  <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net> dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net [ <mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net?> mailto:dialogue-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of  <mailto:LAURELCG at aol.com> LAURELCG at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:34 PM
To:  <mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net> dialogue at wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Dialogue] Healing Cancer/Heaven/Conquering Hope

I think I agree with the speaker that hopelessness kills people in the face of a cancer diagnosis. Remarkable Recovery was an important book to me in my lymphoma experience. It documents many people recovering from terminal diagnoses. I don't agree with your speaker's second statement. It is trust in your destiny, in this moment and for the future, that is helpful. No one knows they're going to heaven.

My memoir of my journey with cancer might be helpful:Illness as Initiation: an unlikely heroine's journey at  <http://booklocker.com/books/5100.html> http://booklocker.com/books/5100.html.

Conquering hope, IMHO, is what I attempt when I sit in stillness to meditate and let go of my self, my personal history, my possessions, my thoughts, my beliefs (e.g. in heaven), my hopes, my dreams, my fears. To travel back to before the big bang and identify with the mystery that was present in nothingness. Watching Fred McGuire really let go of everything on his journey to death taught me what meditation is for.

Blessings, Jim. May all of us, especially your daughter-in-law, be well and free from suffering,

Jann McGuire

On Oct 27, 2011, at 9:49 AM, James Wiegel < <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com> jfwiegel at yahoo.com> wrote:

Listening to the Healing Cancer World Summit (daughter in law has rectal cancer) as I read your message, Bill . . . 2 comments from the speaker: 

Hopelessness is the killer, not cancer.

Then, later, he said:  People who know they are going to heaven have a better chance of surviving cancer because they know where they are going . . .

So, what is the relation between "going to heaven"  and "conquering hope" and "hopelessness"?

Jim Wiegel

Life isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be life. -- James Michener, The Source

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
 <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com> jfwiegel at yahoo.com  <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> www.partnersinparticipation.com

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