[Dialogue] Fwd: Re: Redefining FAITH

Donald Bushman don at donbushman.com
Thu Mar 22 11:47:37 EDT 2012 

Faith by definition is a trust arising from a life experience in one's 
past.(OED)
So if a person is conscious, faith is the context from which one 
understands and interprets what is going in their life experience.

I suspect Randy is referring to faith of a particular variety, being 
generous we could say Christian faith. However, as faith happens in the 
life of the individual, and a church consists of individuals, speaking 
of The Christian Faith is fraught with dangers.

The reunification of faith with the religious institutions by definition 
has already happened (isn't that what makes a group of people band 
together, the similarity of their faith articulations?)

I wonder (not having read Rivkin) if the faith that is described in the 
Rivkin quote we of the Insititute would rather describe as a faint echo 
of what our eschatological hero described.

I remember Fischel talking about our role as movemental church being the 
ones who penetrated the institution of the church, got past the walls 
and the moat, in fact found our way down to the deepest darkest level of 
the institutional castle, gained access to the darkest dungeon, reached 
into a well filled with shit, pulled out the sword of the The Word About 
Life, cleaned it off, polished it, arose from the depths and handed it 
to the prince of the church.

And I agree with Rifkin that making what was an articulation of faith 
into a social construct seems similar to burying TWLI in the deepest 
darkest part of the institution.

If the institution strives to enrich and enliven the life giving 
experience and memory of its members' encounter with the spirit, there 
will be no wedge between the institution and the faith of the 
faith-filled. An institution driven by purpose rather than by control.

I invite people to watch the TED Talk of Simon Sinek on leadership.
http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action.html
An 18 minute watch which suggests to me that the social construct is 
focused largely on the What, and the movemental church is focused first 
of all on the Why.

Don Bushman


On 3/22/2012 11:09 AM, Richard Alton wrote:
> Randy, yes, what creates a movement, but must be more than a common 
> story, song and symbol..is it not more like a new spirit that comes at 
> the wonder once again..I am not so sure you create movements, but 
> rather discover them..
> Dick
>
> Richard H.T. Alton 166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N Oak Park, IL 60302 
> T:1.773.344.7172 richard.alton at gmail.com Don't let the fear of 
> striking out hold you back Babe Ruth
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:15:30 -0700
> From: rcwmbw at yahoo.com
> To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Redefining FAITH
>
> Marsha,
> When I say "religion" I'm thinking more in terms of the first 300 
> years of Christianity when it was more of a _movement_ than an 
> _institution_.  Those early Christians had no dogma, hierarchy or 
> bureaucracy, but they had something that held them together as a 
> community.  I'm sure there are other good historical examples of 
> this.  Whatever that "something" was is what I mean by "religion," 
> that which creates and sustains community.  It may be no more that a 
> common story, style and symbol
> Randy
> "Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in 
> the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it 
> desires."
> -Martin Buber (adapted)
>
> --- On *Mon, 3/19/12, Marsha Hahn /<mhahn013 at sbcglobal.net>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Marsha Hahn <mhahn013 at sbcglobal.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Redefining FAITH
>     To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
>     Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 7:42 AM
>
>     I find the notion that faith does not have to be tied to any
>     particular religious construct very freeing. This is not to say,
>     however, that your desire to reunite faith and religion is not a
>     worthy one for you and others. But the idea that faith is bigger
>     than any one religion's domain - yes, that is very appealing and
>     rings true to me. Perhaps this is because I have been unable to
>     find a home in any organized religious tradition.
>
>     Thanks for sharing, Randy.
>
>     Marsha
>
>     Sent from my iPad
>
>     On Mar 19, 2012, at 6:43 AM, R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com
>     <http://us.mc1256.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rcwmbw%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>         Colleagues,
>         I first knew of Jeremy Rifkin back in the 80s when I read his
>         book /Entropy/.  I recently rediscovered him and find that he
>         delves into subjects and issues that the faint of heart would
>         never venture near.  Here's an example from his book /The
>         Empathic Civilization:/
>         //
>         /     ...faith (is) the belief that one's life is worth
>         living, and for that reason alone, it (has) meaning in the
>         larger scheme of things and therefore (needs) to be lived
>         fully in deep connection with others./
>         /     ...faith...can be purloined and made into a social
>         construct that exacts obedience, feeds on fear of death, is
>         disembodied in its approach, and establishes rigid boundaries
>         separating the saved from the damned.  Institutionalized
>         religions, for the most part, do just that.  (pgs 169-170)/
>         //
>         Is this too harsh a judgment on Rifkin's part, or is he on
>         target?  I continue to struggle with what I perceive to be a
>         wedge that has been driven between faith and religion by
>         religious institutions.  I long to see faith and religion
>         reunited, and an appeal to what our culture is imposing as a
>         rather simple understanding of "spirituality" in the form of
>         "back to nature" movements, etc., does little to resolve that
>         conflict, at least for me.
>         //
>         Randy
>
>
>         "Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of
>         being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it
>         to reality as it desires."
>         -Martin Buber (adapted)
>
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