[Oe List ...] various charts

Fri Jun 30 06:31:02 EST 2006

Lee,

Put us on your copy list.

Thanks,

Marianna and Bill Bailey
wmbailey at charter.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Caruso" <cplcaruso at igc.org>
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] various charts

> 
> 
> Hi Lee:
> 
> I'd like to be on the copy list too.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Ray
> 
>> I think my rationales are going to Frank alone.  I think.  If anyone
>> else wants to see what I sent to Frank, holler.
>> 
>> Lee
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 29, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Patricia Tuecke wrote:
>> 
>>> Lee,
>>> I saw Frank's original request on the ICA Dialogue list and was
>>> going to
>>> forward it to you. Then when I went to the OE list, I was glad you had
>>> already begun a conversation with Frank. Many, I'm sure, will be
>>> interested
>>> in your rationales, etc. Enjoy your coffee.
>>> 
>>> Patricia Tuecke, Sierra Circle Consulting
>>> 775-333-6998.  ptuecke at nvbell.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net]
>>> On Behalf
>>> Of Lee
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:59 AM
>>> To: Order Ecumenical Community
>>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] various charts
>>> 
>>> Yeah, this is what I was afraid of.  I will answer your questions,
>>> but it might take several emails.  Short questions do not necessarily
>>> lead to short answers.
>>> 
>>> The fourth step, as an example of a long answer, has been bastardized
>>> to where the original Tactical Systems Chart is no longer in use.
>>> The cross gestalt did us all in and tied knots in the tails of all
>>> participants.  I've changed the fourth step as well.  I'll get to
>>> that later.
>>> 
>>> I am going to get a cup of coffee and will address the Practical
>>> Vision chart in a bit.
>>> 
>>> Lee
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:21 PM, frank bremner wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My questions are short, Lee.
>>>> 
>>>> 1)  What was the rationale for the Vision chart (LENS/epecially
>>>> HDP) being
>>>> as it was?  The key vision item to aim for being in the middle,
>>>> with main
>>>> supporting and lesser supporting items to the sides?  Anything else?
>>>> 
>>>> 2)  What was the rationale for the Contradictions chart (as above)
>>>> being as
>>>> it was?  Having the most populous category on the left, decreasing
>>>> to the
>>>> least populous category on the right, and all else in between?
>>>> Anything
>>>> else?
>>>> 
>>>> 3)  For the Proposals chart the Cultural items tended to be in the
>>>> middle,
>>>> with Social/Political items to one side, and Economic items to the
>>>> other
>>>> side.  Emphasis: the cultural is key.  Anything else?
>>>> 
>>>> 4)  The Programmatic Chart reworked the Proposals into Programs
>>>> that suited
>>>> the territory and kinds of funding agencies.  I'd imagine that this
>>>> could
>>>> change if there were a change of government with a new arrangement of
>>>> government departments - teh same funding but from different
>>>> places.  And so
>>>> on.  Anything else?
>>>> 
>>>> 5) Timeline.  Straightforward.  With a fairly time-constrained
>>>> event with
>>>> students I've had them place Proposal items horizontally on a
>>>> timeline: the
>>>> months of this year, then the first and second six-month periods of
>>>> next
>>>> year, then "after that".  I divided the timeline into three
>>>> horizontal
>>>> streams: economic (about "resources etc"), political (about
>>>> "decisions and
>>>> discussions etc"), and cultural (about "values, symbols and
>>>> celebrations
>>>> etc").  I'd develop the Social Process categories further only if
>>>> necessary.
>>>> 
>>>> 6) Tactics.  A detailed version of the Proposals or Programmatic
>>>> chart?
>>>> 
>>>> I know it looks as if I've answered my own question ("We're not out
>>>> to teach
>>>> you anything you don't already know"), BUT I'm interested in any
>>>> fresh takes
>>>> on these categories from anyone who has been intimately involved
>>>> with them
>>>> on a week-by-week basis.
>>>> 
>>>> My underlying issue/question has to do with acquainting students/
>>>> teachers
>>>> with the idea of using a chart to hold items, rather than a list.
>>>> Then
>>>> "What sort of chart?"  Why do you use a "bridge chart" for the
>>>> Vision and
>>>> not for the Proposals?  Are there other ways of doing it?
>>>> 
>>>> In other words:
>>>> (1) give them something to work with in the current event/workshop
>>>> (2) suggest that "doing a visual chart" is important: a principle
>>>> within
>>>> this event/workshop
>>>> (3) suggest that their may be other charts that could fit each stage
>>>> (4) suggest why the charts in (1) were used
>>>> (5) back to (3): the charts in (1) are not written in stone: if
>>>> anyone has
>>>> an alternative, let's look at it
>>>> 
>>>> A lot of this would tend to be done if I was able to work with the
>>>> student/teacher group over a period of time as a mentor.
>>>> 
>>>> Any further ideas ?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> 
>>>> Frank Bremner
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Lee <leassoc at charter.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>>>>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] various charts
>>>>> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:33:23 -0700
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, that's plenty.  I could send you the entire facilitators
>>>>> manual, but, that might not answer any of your questions.  So, why
>>>>> don't you ask me a couple of specific questions on each of the five
>>>>> steps and I'll do my best to answer them.  Why don't you send a
>>>>> separate email for each set of questions rather than a dozen or so
>>>>> all at once.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lee
>>>>> 
>>>> etc
>>>> 
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
>>>> http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OE mailing list
>>>> OE at wedgeblade.net
>>>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at wedgeblade.net
>>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at wedgeblade.net
>>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at wedgeblade.net
>> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at wedgeblade.net
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net