[Oe List ...] Care for the ICA USA and its board of directors

Sat Sep 8 09:07:28 EDT 2007

Thanks, Frank,

A fine way to start my day!!!!

Jim Wiegel
--- frank bremner <fjbremner at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
> G'day from "Down Under, where ......" (Men at Work:
> 1982?)
> 
> I do not want to buy into the internal ICA USA
> issues referred to.  I'm sure there are many nuances
> and not-in-the centre-of-the-table aspects that I am
> not privy to.  Maybe in the way that nuances and
> aspects were often hidden despite "the power lies in
> the centre of the table".
> 
> Was it every really true that "the power lies in the
> centre of the table" when on the one hand "lobbying"
> was frowned upon, and on the other hand you were
> expected to turn up with a thought-through model? 
> In other words, whatever you did, someone wanting to
> play power games, or guru games, would shoot you
> down.  You were a maverick if you had an idea of
> your own and pursued it, and on the other hand you
> were criticised for inacton if you tried to
> create/lobby/build (etc) consensus and nothing
> happened.  "Consensus" seemed to be another word
> with which to hit people over the head.
> 
> So I watch with interest, concern, pain and feeling.
> 
> But to my main point.  In Adelaide we have just
> completed teaching Module 6 in the Australian
> 6-module ToP sequence.  We now have a group of
> people, including a few members of our Facilitation
> Learning Community who presented the Module, who
> will now prepare a portfolio (etc) of their ToP
> work, and will be mentored in this work, and will be
> assessed in this work.  If succcessful, ICA
> Australia, as I understand it, can then title them
> ToP Certified Practitioner.  Setting up the
> structures to do this is the next stage for our
> national ToP network.
> 
> I have no problem with this, despite having been
> around this tradition since mid-1968, and having
> taught various courses, run various workshops,
> constructed various adaptations of courses and
> workshops, over the years.  The ToP Modules have
> sharpened my thinking and my practice, and revealed
> hidden depths of our methods in theory and practice.
>  
> 
> It's like "You don't know what Year 9 Trigonometry
> is really about until you've taught it for
> 3/5/whatever years".  I might also add "And then
> teach someone else your scheme on how to teach it". 
> (That's where ToP really got to me - it sharpened up
> a lot of wooly thinking.)  You might also see way in
> which to add your own twists, tweaks and wrinkles
> and add to the "How to teach Year 9 Trigonometry"
> wealth of experience and wisdom.
> 
> I have no problem with the requirement that I submit
> myself to the same training and rigour as anyone
> coming to ToP cold, "off the street", i.e. most of
> our participants.  It's a matter of credibility, for
> them, and for me.  And there's an element of
> confidence there, in being able to talk about the
> ToP work in the language of the person "off the
> street".  I found that our "off the street"
> participants wre so impressed with what they were
> learning that they came back for more!  The fact
> that we presenters had lots of practical stories up
> our sleeves added icing on the cake.  
> 
> Maybe "the way the world works" sometimes has a
> valid point.  I was never very impressed by anything
> reeking of the viewpoint "we're the greatest
> movement on earth, and therefore don't have to
> consider anyone else".  It sat next to the question
> asked by an Australian teenager in about 1974. "Why
> is everybody else, every other group, every other
> organisation, ...., always wrong?"
> 
> So I would hope that the people involved with ToP
> can communicate their integrity, and that of the ToP
> program, to the ICA Board.  And I'm talking about
> just plain integrity here (as in that old quote from
> JB Phillips, quoting someone else), not secondary,
> tertiary, quaternary, etc integrity until it's as
> convoluted as a protein molecule!
> 
> 'Nuff for now.  See ya!
> 
> Frank Bremner
> 
> 
> > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:16:23 -0600
> > From: david at mirrorcommunication.com
> > To: OE at wedgeblade.net; Dialogue at wedgeblade.net
> > Subject: [Oe List ...] Care for the ICA USA and
> its board of directors
> > 
> > On 9/6/07 3:34 PM, "Milan Hamilton"  wrote, among
> other comments:
> > 
> > > I continue to be mystified and totally puzzled
> at the arrogance and
> > > insensitivity, and might I say, ignorance (in
> the technical sense of the word)
> > > of ICA US Board and staff [in its relationship
> to the ToP Trainers'
> > > Network]...
> > > 
> > To which Marshall Jones replied:
> > 
> > > I'm not totally clueless about what's going on
> with the ICA-USA board and
> > > staff. But, like many who are proficient in
> using our methods and who
> > > participated in their evolution, I was never
> officially 'baptized' as a ToP
> > > Trainer, so I haven't seen the relevant
> documents... [that express a concept
> > > of the relationship of the ICA USA to the ToP
> Trainers Network that is
> > > rigid and authoritarian rather than
> collaborative and collegial]...
> > > 
> > > ...we wouldn't expect [the ICA USA Board] to be
> on ToP [of ICA's "ToP"
> > > facilitation methods] But I DO expect them to be
> respectful and sensitive to
> > > the collegial issues...
> > 
> > Dear colleagues,
> > 
> > The correspondence quoted above has to do with the
> posture that the ICA USA
> > has adopted in its relationship with the network
> of professional
> > facilitators and trainers who are authorized to
> deliver ICA USA's public ToP
> > facilitative leadership courses.
> > 
> > This email has a slightly broader context: one
> possible relationship that
> > conscientious stakeholders might choose to take to
> the ICA USA Board of
> > Directors. I'm going to share some background and
> context, describe my
> > experiences with this Board, offer some analysis
> of the situation and make
> > five recommendations.
> > 
> > FULL DISCLOSURE and RECENT BACKGROUND
> > As a laid off former employee, I am not a
> disinterested or unbiased observer
> > or advocate. I have, however, worked very hard at
> being balanced, open and
> > engaged with the people who now run the ICA USA,
> including the board of
> > directors. I believe that I have said on this
> listserv before that I have
> > not been engaged by that board and I have been
> explicitly excluded from any
> > dialogue about an aspect of ICA USA's future in
> which I have serious and
> > creative interest-- the care for the ICA Global
> Archives in Chicago. Several
> > emails to the ICA USA board have been ignored and
> a face-to-face
> > conversation with Kirk Harris resulted in my being
> barred from the basement
> > of 4750 N Sheridan Road.
> > 
> > That's the old news, pre-July 2007.
> > 
> > PRESENT CONTEXT
> > In early July this year I decided it was time to
> send a written letter to
> > the board of directors, to share some of my
> observations, to raise the
> > issues to which I believed the Board needed to
> address itself, to offer some
> > contradiction statements as a basis for dialogue
> about the future and to
> > make some proposals for moving forward. I sent
> copies of the letter to 35
> > respected movement colleagues around the US and
> Canada. (See the list
> > below.)
> > 
> > Carolyn Antenen, the board's president, to her
> credit extended the courtesy
> > of a telephone call and a brief phone conversation
> in response to this
> > letter. I have not, however, from either Carolyn
> or any other board members
> > had any response of any substance to my analysis
> or my recommendations.
> > 
> > I am making one last attempt to put before the ICA
> USA 
=== message truncated ===>
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