[Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction

Wed Apr 9 21:27:50 EDT 2008

I have found this thread very interesting.  I confess that I have not
studied this (WalMart) issue in any depth, and my knowledge of economics is
very limited.  But maybe that makes me even more qualified to
contribute--because in one sense it's not an intellectual issue, it's a very
personal and challenging one.  The reality is that these issues are complex
... and they involve much more than ideals ... they involve the very
practical matter of personal choice ... financial and otherwise.  I LOVE
WholeFoods, although there is not one in Bloomington nor even in
Indianapolis, where my husband works.  But if I shopped at Whole Foods, we
would have to increase our food budget by about 30-50%.  I do shop at our
local natural foods coop for many things, but if I did all my shopping
there, my budget would have to expand dramatically.  Add to that the fact
that shopping at my local pet store for food and litter for three cats costs
about 30% more than shopping at the "box stores" (PetSmart or PetCo).  And
if we buy hardware from the local hardware store, we pay a significant
premium over Lowe's or Menards.  It is a constant balancing act for us ...
and we make good incomes and can afford to make many choices that others
can't make.  We strive to buy local, to support local businesses, and to buy
green and natural and healthy, etc., etc.  The shoppers my father refers to
at WalMart probably can't afford to shop at Bloomingfoods (our local coop)
or spend extra to go to the local hardware store or pet shop.  What is the
answer for them?  If WalMart weren't here, what would the implications be
for the shoppers who can't afford other options?  (And if your local stores
can compete with WalMart prices, let me know, because I just might move to
your town! :)).  I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone.  But these
issues aren't simple.  Kill WalMart and you will also have  serious impact
on many, many people who live on the edge and rely on WalMart prices.  I
don't know the answers.  I'm just glad that we'er here having the dialogue.
Thanks for keeping me focused on important issues!

Shelley Hahn

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Charles or Doris Hahn <cdhahn at flash.net>
wrote:

>  Hi Terry,
>
> A point well taken.  Our farmer's market began last Saturday and will
> continue through October.  We buy most of our fresh produce there because it
> is organic and mostly locally grown.  We have a number of Amish selling in
> it.  There are usually a couple of string bands, and one of these has clog
> dancers.  We do pay a premium price for shopping there, but it is healthy
> and fun.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
> From: "McCabe, Terence W" <tm04 at txstate.edu>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical
> Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:21:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
>
>  Hello,
> I find this conversation very interesting. Two things come to mind. A
> chain such as Whole Foods stores buy a significant percentage of produce and
> vegetables from their region. On the other hand, the market (as we see it
> here in the US) has a very short range vision. Is coal really cheaper than
> solar in the long run? Is broccoli from California cheaper than local area
> farmers in the long run? I spend higher prices at our local farmers' market
> because it is organic and more sustainable. I admit that I choose my local
> farmers based on the quality of their products and the charm with which they
> market their produce. (By the way, the spinach in our garden is
> spectacular.)
> Terry McCabe
> ------------------------------
>  *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net on behalf of Carolyn Antenen
> *Sent:* Tue 4/8/2008 5:08 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
>
>   Fascinating study. My entrepreneurial mind wonders:
>
> Why did the chain store win over the customers of the original 3 stores?
> What needs or wants did the 3 smaller stores not fulfill?
> Were they innovative and responsive?
> Did they take out too much capital and not reinvest in resources?
> What did 1 chain store do better than 3 different local stores?
>
> Cincinnati has local groceries that compete very well with Kroger:
> through better quality products, better service, better displays,
> better prepared food deli, and many other
> creative approaches.
>
> Whole Foods and Trader Joe's have gone to national scale because of
> superior innovations over Kroger and Safeway.
> Now the creative local stores have become the latest large chain.
>
> Carolyn Antenen
>
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Bill Bailey wrote:
>
> > Ada, Oklahoma (1974) the Chamber of Commerce & the OKC house did a
> > joint
> > study of what happened to Ada's economy over the past 10 years. In
> > 1964 Ada
> > had three local owned grocery stores; one on the north side, one on
> > the
> > south side, and one in the town center. Each of the three stores
> > was owned
> > and operated by two local families. Each store provided summer and
> > afternoon
> > jobs for high school kids.
> >
> > In 1968 a large grocery store chain opened owned and operated by a
> > firm
> > headquarter in Dallas Texas. The managerial staff of the store
> > lived in
> > Oklahoma City and commuted to Ada on a weekly basis. The new store
> > hired
> > local workers from Ada at minimum wages, but none of the managerial
> > staff
> > participated in the economic, political, or cultural structures of
> > Ada. The
> > goods for the super market all came from the outside and the
> > profits were
> > sent out of state.
> >
> > By 1972 all three locally owned grocery stores had closed, but the
> > super
> > market still provided some jobs for after school and summer jobs
> > for a few
> > high school kids.
> >
> > The Chamber concluded that Ada had lost the economic, political and
> > cultural
> > benefits to the city of:
> >
> >       1. Six residential families,
> >       2. A market for some locally produced food items,
> >       3. A down turn in citizen's presence in town center, and
> >       4. A small number of summer jobs for high school kids.
> >
> > This was just one simple story of what can happen when the chain (box)
> > stores come to town. Instead of circulating locally, the money and
> > business
> > decisions no longer support the quality of life and economic growth
> > of the
> > local community.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Bailey
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net<oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net>
> ]
> > On Behalf
> > Of David Dunn
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:16 PM
> > To: OE Community
> > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass
> > destruction
> >
> > On 4/8/08 1:04 PM, "Marianna Bailey"  wrote:
> >
> >> Let's not forget the economic principles that we used in human
> >> development
> >> projects.Money should circulate 5 times before it leaves a
> >> community. When
> >> Wal-Mart comes into a town small family owned businesses that have
> >> been
> > their
> >> for several generations go out of business. The family owned business
> >> circulated the money 5 times and use to pay living wages. Wal-Mart
> >> pays
> > low
> >> wages and the money leaves the community everyday. What we gain
> >> short term
> > by
> >> low prices does not reflect the long term consequences of our local
> > economy.
> >
> > This is the story of Burna's hometown, Ironwood, MI--on the decline
> > because
> > of a whole system of factors, but Wal-Mart didn't help. The
> > downtown has
> > been dying for many years.
> >
> > David
> >
> > --
> > David Dunn
> > dmdunn1 at gmail.com
> > 720-314-5991
> > Skype: dmirror
> > www.mirrorcommunication.com
> >
> > -- Please note new "GMAIL" address --
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OE mailing list
> > OE at wedgeblade.net
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>
> Carolyn Antenen
> cantenen at mac.com
>
>
>
>
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