[Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
sunwalker at comcast.net
sunwalker at comcast.net
Thu Apr 10 15:22:24 EDT 2008
Sitting, reading while on hold, & noticed you could substitute the final word "prices" in the phrase below with "for income in their job producing the product overseas" -- hmmmm. This is part of the messiness. And am I willing to be poorer once again? What if I don't come at any of it from either a blaming or a scarcity mindset?
"Kill WalMart and you will also have serious impact on many, many people who live on the edge and rely on WalMart prices."
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Hockley <lenh at efn.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:03:52
To:Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
Thanks Shelley,
You are very right it is a complex issue. I would encourage you to toss in some items on the income side of the equation like suppose we increased the minimum wage to a point that the poor could pay the cost without WalMart. Sure, the cost for everything would rise, but the price is not important if we can all afford it.
Len
At 09:27 PM 4/9/2008 -0400, you wrote:
I have found this thread very interesting. I confess that I have not studied this (WalMart) issue in any depth, and my knowledge of economics is very limited. But maybe that makes me even more qualified to contribute--because in one sense it's not an intellectual issue, it's a very personal and challenging one. The reality is that these issues are complex ... and they involve much more than ideals ... they involve the very practical matter of personal choice ... financial and otherwise. I LOVE WholeFoods, although there is not one in Bloomington nor even in Indianapolis, where my husband works. But if I shopped at Whole Foods, we would have to increase our food budget by about 30-50%. I do shop at our local natural foods coop for many things, but if I did all my shopping there, my budget would have to expand dramatically. Add to that the fact that shopping at my local pet store for food and litter for three cats costs about 30% more than shopping at the "box stores" (PetSmart or PetCo). And if we buy hardware from the local hardware store, we pay a significant premium over Lowe's or Menards. It is a constant balancing act for us ... and we make good incomes and can afford to make many choices that others can't make. We strive to buy local, to support local businesses, and to buy green and natural and healthy, etc., etc. The shoppers my father refers to at WalMart probably can't afford to shop at Bloomingfoods (our local coop) or spend extra to go to the local hardware store or pet shop. What is the answer for them? If WalMart weren't here, what would the implications be for the shoppers who can't afford other options? (And if your local stores can compete with WalMart prices, let me know, because I just might move to your town! :)). I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone. But these issues aren't simple. Kill WalMart and you will also have serious impact on many, many people who live on the edge and rely on WalMart prices. I don't know the answers. I'm just glad that we'er here having the dialogue. Thanks for keeping me focused on important issues!
Shelley Hahn
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Charles or Doris Hahn <cdhahn at flash.net <mailto:cdhahn at flash.net> > wrote:
Hi Terry,
A point well taken. Our farmer's market began last Saturday and will continue through October. We buy most of our fresh produce there because it is organic and mostly locally grown. We have a number of Amish selling in it. There are usually a couple of string bands, and one of these has clog dancers. We do pay a premium price for shopping there, but it is healthy and fun.
----- Original Message ----
From: "McCabe, Terence W" <tm04 at txstate.edu <mailto:tm04 at txstate.edu> >
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net> >; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net> >
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:21:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
Hello,
I find this conversation very interesting. Two things come to mind. A chain such as Whole Foods stores buy a significant percentage of produce and vegetables from their region. On the other hand, the market (as we see it here in the US) has a very short range vision. Is coal really cheaper than solar in the long run? Is broccoli from California cheaper than local area farmers in the long run? I spend higher prices at our local farmers' market because it is organic and more sustainable. I admit that I choose my local farmers based on the quality of their products and the charm with which they market their produce. (By the way, the spinach in our garden is spectacular.)
Terry McCabe
----------------
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Carolyn Antenen
Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 5:08 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass destruction
Fascinating study. My entrepreneurial mind wonders:
Why did the chain store win over the customers of the original 3 stores?
What needs or wants did the 3 smaller stores not fulfill?
Were they innovative and responsive?
Did they take out too much capital and not reinvest in resources?
What did 1 chain store do better than 3 different local stores?
Cincinnati has local groceries that compete very well with Kroger:
through better quality products, better service, better displays,
better prepared food deli, and many other
creative approaches.
Whole Foods and Trader Joe's have gone to national scale because of
superior innovations over Kroger and Safeway.
Now the creative local stores have become the latest large chain.
Carolyn Antenen
On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Bill Bailey wrote:
> Ada, Oklahoma (1974) the Chamber of Commerce & the OKC house did a
> joint
> study of what happened to Ada's economy over the past 10 years. In
> 1964 Ada
> had three local owned grocery stores; one on the north side, one on
> the
> south side, and one in the town center. Each of the three stores
> was owned
> and operated by two local families. Each store provided summer and
> afternoon
> jobs for high school kids.
>
> In 1968 a large grocery store chain opened owned and operated by a
> firm
> headquarter in Dallas Texas. The managerial staff of the store
> lived in
> Oklahoma City and commuted to Ada on a weekly basis. The new store
> hired
> local workers from Ada at minimum wages, but none of the managerial
> staff
> participated in the economic, political, or cultural structures of
> Ada. The
> goods for the super market all came from the outside and the
> profits were
> sent out of state.
>
> By 1972 all three locally owned grocery stores had closed, but the
> super
> market still provided some jobs for after school and summer jobs
> for a few
> high school kids.
>
> The Chamber concluded that Ada had lost the economic, political and
> cultural
> benefits to the city of:
>
> 1. Six residential families,
> 2. A market for some locally produced food items,
> 3. A down turn in citizen's presence in town center, and
> 4. A small number of summer jobs for high school kids.
>
> This was just one simple story of what can happen when the chain (box)
> stores come to town. Instead of circulating locally, the money and
> business
> decisions no longer support the quality of life and economic growth
> of the
> local community.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Bailey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net> [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net> ]
> On Behalf
> Of David Dunn
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:16 PM
> To: OE Community
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Wal-Mart and the weapons of mass
> destruction
>
> On 4/8/08 1:04 PM, "Marianna Bailey" wrote:
>
>> Let's not forget the economic principles that we used in human
>> development
>> projects.Money should circulate 5 times before it leaves a
>> community. When
>> Wal-Mart comes into a town small family owned businesses that have
>> been
> their
>> for several generations go out of business. The family owned business
>> circulated the money 5 times and use to pay living wages. Wal-Mart
>> pays
> low
>> wages and the money leaves the community everyday. What we gain
>> short term
> by
>> low prices does not reflect the long term consequences of our local
> economy.
>
> This is the story of Burna's hometown, Ironwood, MI--on the decline
> because
> of a whole system of factors, but Wal-Mart didn't help. The
> downtown has
> been dying for many years.
>
> David
>
> --
> David Dunn
> dmdunn1 at gmail.com <mailto:dmdunn1 at gmail.com>
> 720-314-5991
> Skype: dmirror
> www.mirrorcommunication.com <http://www.mirrorcommunication.com/>
>
> -- Please note new "GMAIL" address --
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at wedgeblade.net>
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at wedgeblade.net>
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
Carolyn Antenen
cantenen at mac.com <mailto:cantenen at mac.com>
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at wedgeblade.net>
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at wedgeblade.net>
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at wedgeblade.net>
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net <http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net>
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
More information about the OE
mailing list