[Oe List ...] Salmon: marriage equality in California

[Charles or Doris Hahn]

Thanks, Jon. Well said!
Doris Hahn


----- Original Message ----
From: "jonzondo at juno.com" <jonzondo at juno.com>
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:22:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: marriage equality in California


As I listen to all this chat about Marriage it makes me think about many things which I'm pondering about from the eagles perspective.
Am I going to continue to live in fear of the consequences when I know what is the Human thing to do?
Am I willing to Be my truth?

Am I willing to go beyond my own mental limitations?
What is more important to me... status or creativity?  tradition or truth?  Being respectful or being entrenched?
The issue of gender mixed marriages often times glosses over the bigger issue, the elephant in the room, which many people forget to speak about.  Basic human rights.    It is time to "grant" all persons the same rights as married couples.  So many "issues" of this time are really about deeper issues which are right in our faces but many are not speaking about for a whole lot of reasons.  When we address the basic human rights of all the people, all the time, for all the ages, and all the genders, then some of the other philisophical stuff will fade away.  (gee, something in what I just said reminds me of 5th City)...
More later.
Walk in Beauty,
Jon Mark Elizondo

-- "W. J." <synergi at yahoo.com> wrote:

Bill and other dearly beloveds,
 
I think the pertinent (and offensive) text in the Discipline prohibits UMC clergy from conducting "ceremonies of homosexual union."
 
The right-wingers who crafted that language several quadrennia ago did not envision today's changed legal climate in MA, CA, and implicitly in NY (as regards marriages contracted out of state, e.g. in CA or Canada). I'm sure they'll come up with some new finger in the dyke (so to speak) the next time around.
 
This is such a new arena for Methodist legalisms to cope with that I'm not aware of any precedents that have been set in MA. In CA 4 years ago a few UMC clergy participated in San Francisco's 'Winter of Love' without losing their credentials. So I'm expecting more of the same without a massive wave of church trials in the Northern California Conference. Don't know how this will play in SEJ/SCJ. SCJ isn't even over the Bushie Library thing yet. Stay tuned for more news shortly.
 
Marshall
 
What we really need is for a few retired bishops to break ranks and just do it. What are they gonna do, put 'em on trial and remove their clergy credentials? I know of only one bishop in recent memory (Hae-Jong Kim) who was investigated and forced to resign (but retained his clerical status) as a result of a complaint against him that was not made public. He also was pressured to resign his teaching job at Drew, where the complaint had originated.
  

--- On Wed, 6/4/08, William Salmon <wsalmon at cox.net> wrote:

From: William Salmon <wsalmon at cox.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: marriage equality in California
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 8:07 PM


Marshall--
    Go for it! 
    Were'nt you the one that noted UM clergy are authorized to do legal weddings? This is an interesting dilemma. 
    Our retired Bishop, Fritz Mutti, had two son who were gay and both died of AIDS. After attending a meeting of UM leaders who spoke of preparing to do UM weddings for gays and lesbians, Fritz spoke in support of what they were doing, but could not perform such weddings because of church law for which he was ordained as a bishop to uphold. I confess to him that I would do such ceremonies. Now with California making it legal, I'm all the more ready too. 
    Yes. Go for it. 
    Bill Salmon
    
----- Original Message ----- 
From: W. J. 
To: oe at wedgeblade.net ; dialogue at wedgeblade.net 
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: [Oe List ...] marriage equality in California

As many of you may know, starting June 17 Californians may be married without regard to a declaration of gender.
 
And I may be facing a church trial for taking actions that could be interpreted as violating the Discipline of the United Methodist Church.  Stay tuned to see if anyone lodges a complaint. My policy in conducting weddings of couples with a legal marriage license in California is not to check their genitalia at the door.
 
Marshall Jones
(with a heavenly chorus of loud hosannahs in the background) 
________________________________
_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net

________________________________

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10 AM

_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net 

____________________________________________________________ 
Click here for free information on exciting leadership programs.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe_wedgeblade.net/attachments/20080605/c34c4504/attachment.html