[Oe List ...] Salmon: SOME more thoughts on the Republican meltdown

Fri Sep 19 01:16:26 EDT 2008

The authenticity of the SP triangle model drew me into the Movement 
back in 1972, and as the basis of this current discussion, makes for 
some fascinating contributions.

I have always been struck by the phenomenon that if you really want 
to find out what's going on in an organisation, and get to the point 
of having change actually happen (including cultural/political 
changes), then you have to be part of meetings/discussions that start 
from the economic perspective. Thus the only meetings that seem to go 
on beyond their scheduled time are those on budgets, fund 
allocations, etc. (This may have been obvious to you all for a long 
time - but for me it's a continuing revelation.)

And on the national/global level, the only way we (the Movement, 
global citizenry) have been able to discover the true colours of the 
national (or Republican...?) psyche has been through a financial 
crisis. And Obama - or any alternative proposal - has to start from 
that economic G-point, even though the insight from the SP triangles 
is still valid: that we push on the cultural and political. But we 
have to do it through what speaks to people at this point, that is, 
the Economic as the meaning-giving (or "Cultural") pole for many.

Adam Thomson in Dover UK.

BTW, thanks to Del for sharing "I am confused...". Tremendous stuff.

END OF MESSAGE

At 22:00 18/09/2008, you wrote:
>WOW! Bill
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:synergi at yahoo.com>W. J.
>To: <mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net>oe at wedgeblade.net ; 
><mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net>dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:34 PM
>Subject: [Oe List ...] more thoughts on the Republican meltdown
>
>I'm not the world's authority on any of this, especially not on God 
>or the Social Process.
>
>But I think we're seeing at the collapse of a particular form of 
>economic interrelatedness/interdependence that has glued together 
>the Western/Asian financial system.
>
>NOT the collapse of economic tyranny. Reports of its demise have 
>been greatly exaggerated. In fact the collapse of the current system 
>illustrates the continuing persistence of the tyranny of economic.
>
>One could point to the perceived need for individuals/groups to 
>claim their slice of economic security at the expense of the system 
>and its stakeholders as a manifestation of sin/greed/economic evil.
>
>Now cometh Uncle Sam to lead us not into temptation, but deliver (?) 
>us from evil.
>
>By becoming the insurer of last resort (buying AIG) Bush&Co and the 
>American taxpayers will prop up the hugely inflated derivative 
>financial instruments that wrap subprime mortgages on which many 
>will default, thus 'saving' the financial institutions that bought 
>them from marking them down to their real value. It's a false 
>economic move that preserves the facade of 'normality' in the midst 
>of severe deflationary pressure in the housing bubble.
>
>I won't even go into the Iraq bubble.
>
>The Republican meltdown has already happened. Evidence: the reality 
>of free market economic turmoil is totally beyond their contextual universe.
>
>I'm not criticizing/deriding Ms. McPalin, but rather the public 
>image constructed for her. She'd be an interesting person to meet at 
>a mooseburger barbecue in Wasilia. It's the arrogance of her 
>candidacy that has me agog.
>
>The 'glue' or corrective we seek is to empower the collapsed 
>cultural dimension to rebalance the dynamics of the economic and 
>political processes. And I just don't think Miss Piggy has the 
>cojones to do it.
>
>McCain/McClean/McPain/NoGain/Rogaine . . . what's the difference?
>
>Now where's my Little Blue Pill?
>
>Marshall
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 9/18/08, William Salmon <wsalmon at cox.net> wrote:
>From: William Salmon <wsalmon at cox.net>
>Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: RESPONSE TO beyond the Republican 
>meltdown: some further thoughts
>To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 12:30 PM
>
>Marshall!
>     Thanks for this follow up. Of couse the triangles would 
> demonstrate the final-continuing collapse of the dynamics initiated 
> at the Age of Enlightenment. Holy Smoke.
>     From your perspective, is the collapse of the Economic, 
> supported by the Political, the result of trying to glue the Social 
> Process together, and the glue has no inner strength, no depth, no 
> moral imperative?
>     Your Twin Tower' analysis absolutely opened my eyes to the 
> existential purpose of the attack.
>     Thanks for these insights. They give me much on which to brood.
>     Well, at least, now I can see, understand, and appreciate your 
> angst. I found your analysis of Palin very helpful.
>     Am I anywhere near in synch with you on this?
>     Bill Salmon
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:synergi at yahoo.com>W. J.
>To: <mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net>oe at wedgeblade.net ; 
><mailto:dialogue at wedgeblade.net>dialogue at wedgeblade.net
>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:18 AM
>Subject: [Oe List ...] beyond the Republican meltdown: some further thoughts
>
>Thank you all for putting up with my existential angst. I got some 
>wonderful responses off-list, including one from one of our token Republicans.
>
>Upon further sober reflection, my mind went to the Social Process 
>triangles (of course).
>
>To stick with the obvious, we're seeing more econimc tyranny played 
>out in alliance with an impotent political process that accepts 
>payoffs/influence/collusion and refuses meaningful regulation. This 
>imbalance is leading to severe global economic 'wobble' (my term) 
>which requires painful quick bandaid fixes that are totally 
>irrational from the perspective of the famous Republican unregulated 
>free-market philosophy.
>
>So where does that leave me and my colleagues? I think we're squoze 
>together way up in the tiny cultural corner of the social process 
>trinagle and trying to decide what the hell to do from there.
>
>Empowering the political makes a lot of sense this fall. I see Obama 
>as a cultural figure working to shift the context of the political 
>process, with a lot of resistance and not a lot of experience in 
>taking us all to a new place. Remember, 'It's not that easy bein' green.'
>
>And that nightmare image of Miss Piggy in the Oval Office...well, if 
>you'll forgive me for invoking her again, I see her too as a 
>cultural phenomenon, coming from a highly reductionistic context and 
>invading the political process as a kind of political messiah figure 
>with lipstick, waving the right wing Republican banner.
>
>These two figures clue us in to the absolute necessity of the 
>cultural dimension for articulating the meaning(s) of where we are 
>globally, as oposed to political 'business as usual.'
>
>And for what it's worth, I see the destruction of the Twin Towers as 
>a cultural attack, or an attack on our primary Western cultural 
>values (that one's so obvious, maybe that's why it's so hard to get it).
>
>So, as we all continue to watch in horror at the Republican 
>meltdown, keep in mind that its an economic meltdown (DUH!) as well 
>as a political meltdown, and finally a cultural meltdown . . . as 
>the Reagan Revolution finally runs outa steam. Jelly bean, anyone? 
>There's not much of anything else left to offer.
>
>Marshall
>
>
>
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