[Oe List ...] Internal screwed-up-ness

[KarenBueno at aol.com]

Good words, Bill.  You got it.
 
Karen (Wright) Bueno
 
 
In a message dated 4/29/2009 1:42:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
pvida at whc.net writes:

Tim's  comment reminds me why I've found 'total depravity' to be such a
comforting  perspective!  Internal screwed-up-ness is a given in any  human
institution (which we discussed in the HRN section on the church) but  had a
hard time sorting through in terms of the Order as a human  institution.  I
found it interesting that the 'need to be pure' that  glossed over many
issues in the institutional church - covering up scandal,  etc. - has its
counterpart in our own realities as well.  The flip  side of that - being
offended and hurt that we've been treated in ways we  consider unfair -
focuses us on 'shoulda-been' instead of taking the hit,  grieving, and
figuring out how to care next.  At least for  me.

Bill Schlesinger
Project Vida
3607 Rivera Ave
El Paso, TX  79905
(915) 533-7057 x 207
(915) 490-6148 mobile
(915) 533-7158  fax
bschlesinger.pv at tachc.org

-----Original Message-----
From:  oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On 
Behalf
Of  Tim Wegner
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:23 PM
To:  dialogue at wedgeblade.net; oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...]  [Dialogue] Order annuity (and R. Niebuhr)

This is an intriguing thread.  I would like to relate our discussion 
here to the theology of Reinhold  Niebuhr (read on).

(By the way, the thread has diverged on the two  lists, so if you are 
just on one list, you haven't seen all the  messages.)

Susan and I didn't ever "leave the order", at least in terms  of 
leaving the community. We did change our financial covenant by ending  
the contribution of my entire salary out of concern that some  
community members had become dependent and had lost the capacity to  
support themselves. We didn't feel it was ethical to allow the  
dysfunctional dependency to continue. This decision meant (in some  
people's minds) that we had left, so we didn't receive any annuity  
money. And in any case, shortly after we changed our financial  
relationship, the centralized structures of the order were  disbanded.

I have been preparing a two-part adult class on Obama and  Reihhold 
Niebuhr for my church, based on the wonderful "Speaking of Faith"  
program on NPR.  See:
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2009/obamas-
theologian/

The  way-too-simple synopsis is that Niebuhr believed that we live 
caught in a  tension between, on the one hand, the need to respond to 
innocent  suffering, and on the other hand, our flawed human nature 
which renders  our well-meaning attempts open to the risk of counter 
productiveness  because of our flawed nature. This tension plays out 
at the individual  level, but Niebuhr's concern was more the large 
stage on which American  power is excercised.

Mary Hampton is visiting us this weekend as she is  attending an 
Occupational Therapy conference, and we have had some  conversations 
about this. I connected this "order annuity" discussion with  the 
themes of the Niebuhr study I am preparing, and found it cast some  
interesting light. The Order certainly responded to innocent  
suffering, but was certainly open to a Niebuhrian critique of 
ignoring  our own human flaws. Hence we experienced issues like sexual 
abuse,  unhealthy economic dependency, and so on (make your own list). 


I  would be curious to know if Niebuhr's thought played any role in 
the early  days of the Order, or was intentionally rejected in favor 
of the four  theologians chosen for RS-1.

Susan and I should add that we are  grateful for everything that has 
happened and is happening in our lives  including our experience with 
the Order. We certainly had some wild  adventures, and seem to have 
missed some of the worst problems. This  appreciation doesn't prevent 
me from looking at our community with  Nieburian eyeglasses and seeing 
a naively optimistic  liberalism.

Tim

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