[Oe List ...] all the earth belongs to all the people
Jim Baumbach
wtw0bl at new.rr.com
Sat Aug 29 15:51:43 CDT 2009
This kind of conversation always seems to lead to extremes. And all I
can think of is that conservatives live in a totally different
universe. They seem to be so worried about Socialism when most of their
existence in the US is socialistic. Can you imagine what our highway
system across this country would be like if it was left in the hands of
private corporations? Government (federal, state or local) seems to be
doing a pretty good job there. Of course it would also be a very
exciting time if the laws governing traffic were created by private
enterprise. When we have a police emergency I pray to God no Black
mercenary thugs come to my house and shoot up all my neighbors. Our
cops on on the public payroll and that seems to work very well. Of
course that is socialism! And when there is a fire to put out nearby, I
am happy the firefighters hired by our socialistic government are there
to control things. And the water they use comes from the local
socialist government sources free to whomever needs a drink.
Fortunately, we don't have to worry about the poor getting water. And
who sets the standards for the water quality through out our nation?
Not the private sector! And what about sewage? Hmm, dirty rotten
socialists at it again. Clean water, clean air, and speaking about air,
who keeps all those planes from crashing into each other? Who sets the
standards? Who enforces the standards? And those god-awful public
schools and universities is this socialism or what? And I would caution
conservatives not to go into public libraries, parks, public buildings
because they all smack of the "S" word. And the construction standards
used to keep all of our buildings from collapsing on our heads, who sets
and enforces those standards? Don't forget that the US has it share of
natural disasters that the government is expected to help protect us
from and clean up afterwards. So whose afraid of the socialist
boogeyperson?
And why should adequate, affordable health care be denied to anyone?
Jim Baumbach
Marsha Hahn wrote:
> Susan and all,
>
> What a stimulating conversation! Thank you, Marshall, for getting it
> started. To respond to Susan, the American government is a government
> "of the people." That's one of our core principles. That means I'm
> the government, and so are you. I am REALLY trying to figure out how
> to play a constructive role as an individual citizen, responsible for
> my government, in this health care debate.
>
> It is precisely from the place of kindness and generosity, which you
> mention below, that I wish to make decent health care available to my
> fellow human beings - and to which I, out of kindness and generosity,
> would gladly contribute to make happen. We need to reclaim our
> ownership of our government - it is US.
>
> My thoughts.
>
> Marsha
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:49:33 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] all the earth belongs to all the people
>
> Jack and Paul, First of all, I appreciate your taking my question
> seriously and not just dismissing it as uncaring or unthinking.
>
> Next, I think what has always distinguished people of successful
> community is that they CHOOSE to care for each other. Not that there
> is a governing body (the Soviet?) requiring it and thereby diminishing
> to nothing the human spirit.
>
> Finally, I do not believe that anyone or any government "owes" me
> medical care, or food, or a home, or a car, or any of the things that
> everyone seems to take for granted. If I am unable to provide those
> things for myself, then I truly do hope there will be kind and
> generous people who will help me. But not, please God, my government.
>
> I have been so dismayed by our pell mell helter skelter descent into
> socialism within an oh-so-short handful of months that I am no longer
> a conservative. I have lost all balance I ever had and have fallen
> right over into libertarianism (not, of course, the LaRouche style
> version).
>
> Susan
>
> *Susan Fertig-Dykes*
> *tel: (703) 751-5956*
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net]
> *On Behalf Of *Jack Gilles
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:09 PM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] all the earth belongs to all the people
>
> Dear Susan,
>
> I too think this is a question that needs a thoughtful answer. I am
> grateful for Paul's response as it is, as it should be, from the heart
> which is the means by which this community dialogues.
>
> I remember JWM reminding us that first and foremost we were born into
> humanity, not family, community or nation. Therefore, it is the
> humanity of us all that we stand before as equals, and with a mutual
> responsibility. That said, each of us has a responsibility for how
> that life is lived and cared for. We bare the responsibility for our
> actions, including those that lead to consequences of illness and poor
> well-being. But there are issues of wellness that are beyond our
> individual control, be those of birth, accident or social
> circumstances. For these we need to ask, whom will be responsible for
> the healing and care? In that question it is clear that our (USA)
> social structures and consciousness is in need of strengthening,
> including our understanding of death.
>
> We all know of the issues of families not willing to care for, nor
> honor the dignity and role of elders in their lives. We have
> developed vast industries to hide this responsibility, to render the
> elders subservient to youth and deny a legitimate profound role in our
> collective community. We also know that we have lost community in and
> through which care needs to be acted out. We have seen so many fine
> examples of community care including many that have financial
> structural designs that seem to work well. In a "perfect world"
> perhaps this model of caring community with equitable structures would
> be what we need to build. I would share with what I imagine is your
> concern that once a "right" is designated at such a large level as the
> US economy and society things not only get complicated and often too
> expensive, but it keeps us from facing the more ontological needs of
> building our local communities and our individual responsibilities for
> ourselves and our neighbors. It hinders the necessary dialogue on
> what care should we collectively render (i.e. unlimited end of life
> treatments at all costs, who gets transplants etc.). We have a very
> profound dialogue that needs to occur around these issues that isn't
> taking place, at least at a national level. In other words, the issue
> of "the right of care for all" when implied at the national level, is
> not dealing with the contradictions and therefore, I believe, will not
> lead to the solutions we need to develop. Without elaboration, we who
> live in the Litibu community of Mexico are presently facing such
> community care issues.
>
> That said, it remains to say which present options being discussed
> will take us towards our goal of all of us caring for all in a way
> that brings us into full mutual love and responsibility. I am not
> totally clear as to which model does that and what model keeps us
> further away from the real contradictions of our common good.
>
> Grace & Peace,
>
> Jack
> On Aug 29, 2009, at 2:46 AM, PSchrijnen at aol.com
> <mailto:PSchrijnen at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Why? What a great question, Susan.
>>
>> I was on top of Table Mountain yesterday. The cable car and
>> facilities on top of the mountain were refurbished about 10 years
>> ago, and Mandela opened it: declaring it SA's gift to the earth. He
>> declared it so. An act of generosity. Of hope. And most people on
>> top of the mountain were South Africans, most of them black, but
>> there were accents and shades of all colours of the rainbow.
>>
>> So, thanks Susan, for letting me ponder that question.
>>
>> By the way, the top of Table Mountain is sacred space. There is an
>> awe in the air. People whisper thoughtfully, aware of the presence of
>> the mystery. I wept at times in the presence of this perspective on
>> the beautiful earth on which I live.
>>
>> Paul
>> <table%20mountain.JPG>
>>
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