[Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?

James Wiegel jfwiegel at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 30 14:54:47 CDT 2009


Yes, the right to struggle for life, for liberty, for the pursuit of happiness, in short, the right to participate in the social process . . .

Elaine Stover sent a great piece from John McKnight of ABCD fame (Asset Based Community Development) and their movement's sense of what is needed from the perspective of community.

Albeit, when I was in Israel, the group of us facilitator types were talking about the future and the complexities of health care, etc.  and thought we should form a commune of some sort where we could live together and see after our own care.

Since I am the oldest in the group, I asked if anyone there had skill in taking care of incontinent old men.  Well, the group thought, maybe we could form our commune next to one that was good at that . . . reminded me of conversations in the 80's about the dissolution of OE . . . whatever spiritual, philosophical approach you take, caring for those who need care takes an effort.  Where is there enough "glue" for that?  families?, clans?, if we can't generate sufficient capacity for this to actually happen at some more intimate level, is there a viable alternative to legislation and taxation?

Jim



Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun.  G. K. Chesterton



Jim Wiegel

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401

+1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277

   jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:

From: Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Cc: "'Colleague Dialogue'" <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 12:31 PM



 
Perhaps I should explain that I do want everyone to eat, 
absolutely.  I've spent much of my life working on that.  Is 
it a right?  No.  I think we need to define what me mean by a "right" 
and whether it is government that fulfills all needs.
 
Susan
 
Susan 
Fertig-Dykes
tel: 
(703) 751-5956
 



From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of James 
Wiegel
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:22 AM
To: Order 
Ecumenical Community
Cc: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: [Oe 
List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?




  
  
    I found myself struggling with this in early July, near 
      Jerusalem, in working with a pilot for bringing together the sides in the 
      Israeli - Palestinian conflict.  With people in violent conflict, it 
      is not clear that there is anything "in common" on which to base decisions 
      for the future.  It was pointed out that using "rights" language puts 
      people into the position of being ready to fight for what they see as 
      justice, whereas using the language of basic human needs puts people in 
      more of a place to inquire what is possible.  

Even so, what 
      are these basic human needs and who is the guarantor?  Even in the 
      constitution they were stated as "self evident"

Maybe there is 
      something deeper going on in this shrill American debate?  I wonder 
      if anyone who has been studying The Big Sort might have a 
      thought?

Jim

Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a 
      pun. G. K. Chesterton

Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, 
      Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-936-8671 +1 
      623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com 
      www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Susan 
      Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:

      
From: 
        Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 
        Bill Alerding
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" 
        <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 11:35 
        AM


        
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        No.
         
        Susan Fertig-Dykes
        tel: (703) 751-5956
         

        
        
        From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
        [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of A.M. 
        Noel
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:26 PM
To: 
        'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill 
        Alerding


        
        Yes

        
        
        From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
        [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Susan 
        Fertig
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 AM
To: 
        'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill 
        Alerding


        
        Do we have a right to eat?
         
        Susan Fertig-Dykes
        tel: (703) 751-5956
         

        
        
        From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net 
        [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Tracy E. 
        Longacre
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:31 AM
To: 
        'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill 
        Alerding


        
        
        Why? 
        Maybe because, like rain, much disease, injury, illness, etc. rains on 
        all, regardless of ability to pay. If you have a right to eat but no 
        right to health care, what’s the point? 
         
        Of 
        course, we all know that, despite the fact that we spend our tax dollars 
        pushing governments around the world to believe and provide healthcare 
        as a right, this is not in fact true in the US.
         
        
           
        Tracy E. Longacre
           
        from Bukavu, DR Congo
         
           
        Blog: http://telglobal.vox.com
           
        Run Blog:  http://revruns.blogspot.com
           
        Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlongacre/
           
        Want to receive monthly updates on me and my work? send an e-mail to: 
        telupdates-subscribe at topica.com
         
        When 
        it is over, I don't want to wonder if I have made of my life something 
        particular, and real. I don't want to find myself sighing and 
        frightened, or full of argument.                    
        - Mary Oliver
         
        
        
        From: 
        oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On 
        Behalf Of Susan Fertig
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 
        3:43 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: 
        Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
         
        Why?
        
         
        Susan 
        Fertig-Dykes
        tel: 
        (703) 751-5956
        
         
         
        
        
        
        From: 
        oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On 
        Behalf Of William Alerding
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 
        2:20 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: [Oe 
        List ...] Bill Alerding
        As Ted Kennedy so well said: "Healthcare in a right 
        of all the people, not a priviledge" 
        
        i
        
        Bill Alerding
        
         
        
        
        On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:18 PM, David Walters 
        wrote:
        


        
        
        All the 
        Healthcare belongs to all the people.
        
         
        
        David 
        Walters
        
         
        
          
           
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