[Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?

Sun Aug 30 15:56:08 CDT 2009

Susan, I always enjoy your presence on the listserve.  I have to admit, 
you make me reassess my perspectives (although I am usually right).  In 
the question of whether people have the right to eat, I ponder these 
options: if people have a means to feed themselves, is it murder if I 
interfere with their obtaining food until they starve to death?  And if 
people do not have the means to feed themselves, is it murder for if I 
refuse to give them food until they starve to death?  Why or why not?

Jim Baumbach

Susan Fertig wrote:
> Perhaps I should explain that I do want everyone to eat, absolutely.  
> I've spent much of my life working on that.  Is it a right?  No.  I 
> think we need to define what me mean by a "right" and whether it is 
> government that fulfills all needs.
>  
> Susan
>  
> *Susan Fertig-Dykes*
> *tel: (703) 751-5956*
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] 
> *On Behalf Of *James Wiegel
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:22 AM
> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
> *Cc:* Colleague Dialogue
> *Subject:* [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
>
> I found myself struggling with this in early July, near Jerusalem, in 
> working with a pilot for bringing together the sides in the Israeli - 
> Palestinian conflict.  With people in violent conflict, it is not 
> clear that there is anything "in common" on which to base decisions 
> for the future.  It was pointed out that using "rights" language puts 
> people into the position of being ready to fight for what they see as 
> justice, whereas using the language of basic human needs puts people 
> in more of a place to inquire what is possible. 
>
> Even so, what are these basic human needs and who is the guarantor?  
> Even in the constitution they were stated as "self evident"
>
> Maybe there is something deeper going on in this shrill American 
> debate?  I wonder if anyone who has been studying The Big Sort might 
> have a thought?
>
> Jim
>
> Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. G. K. Chesterton
>
> Jim Wiegel
> 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
> +1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/29/09, Susan Fertig /<susan at gmdtech.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
>     Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>     To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>     Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 11:35 AM
>
>     No.
>      
>     *Susan Fertig-Dykes*
>     *tel: (703) 751-5956*
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>     [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *A.M. Noel
>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:26 PM
>     *To:* 'Order Ecumenical Community'
>     *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>
>     Yes
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>     [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Susan Fertig
>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 AM
>     *To:* 'Order Ecumenical Community'
>     *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>
>     Do we have a right to eat?
>      
>     *Susan Fertig-Dykes*
>     *tel: (703) 751-5956*
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>     [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Tracy E. Longacre
>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:31 AM
>     *To:* 'Order Ecumenical Community'
>     *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>
>     Why? Maybe because, like rain, much disease, injury, illness, etc.
>     rains on all, regardless of ability to pay. If you have a right to
>     eat but no right to health care, what's the point?
>
>      
>
>     Of course, we all know that, despite the fact that we spend our
>     tax dollars pushing governments around the world to believe and
>     provide healthcare as a right, this is not in fact true in the US.
>
>      
>
>        Tracy E. Longacre
>
>        from Bukavu, DR Congo
>
>      
>
>     /   Blog: http://telglobal.vox.com <http://telglobal.vox.com/>/
>
>     /   Run Blog:  http://revruns.blogspot.com
>     <http://revruns.blogspot.com/>/
>
>     /   Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlongacre//
>
>     /   Want to receive monthly updates on me and my work? send an
>     e-mail to: /telupdates-subscribe at topica.com
>     </mc/compose?to=telupdates-subscribe at topica.com>//
>
>      
>
>     /When it is over, I don't want to wonder if I have made of my life
>     something particular, and real. I don't want to find myself
>     sighing and frightened, or full of argument./                    -
>     Mary Oliver
>
>      
>
>     *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>     [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *Susan Fertig
>     *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:43 AM
>     *To:* 'Order Ecumenical Community'
>     *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>
>      
>
>     Why?
>
>      
>
>     *Susan Fertig-Dykes*
>
>     *tel: (703) 751-5956*
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
>     [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On Behalf Of *William Alerding
>     *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 2:20 PM
>     *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
>     *Subject:* [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
>
>     As Ted Kennedy so well said: "Healthcare in a right of all the
>     people, not a priviledge"
>
>     i
>
>     Bill Alerding
>
>      
>
>     On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:18 PM, David Walters wrote:
>
>
>
>     *All the Healthcare belongs to all the people.*
>
>      
>
>     *David Walters*
>
>      
>
>          
>
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