[Oe List ...] Fw: [Dialogue] What do we mean by a "right"?
Janice Ulangca
aulangca at stny.rr.com
Sun Aug 30 23:40:56 CDT 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: Janice Ulangca
To: Colleague Dialogue
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:45 PM
Subject: [Dialogue] What do we mean by a "right"?
What do we mean by a "right" - excellent question, Susan. Your comments raise the question of taking personal responsibility rather than having everything handed to us. And from Jim W., what are basic human needs, and who is the guarantor? We might more easily agree about the basic human needs rather than the question of "guaranteeing" their fulfillment.
What about the role of government? Some of us may see government as an important part of the answer to fulfilling basic human needs. Others may see government as "big brother" ready to control every aspect of life - encouraging us to give up liberty so that we can be personally lazy. If the government has a role, does it mean that everyone sits back and waits for things to be delivered to their doors? Does this mean a government employee forcing everyone to have a yearly physical? No to both questions.
I propose that "access" to being able to fulfill basic human needs is a key criterion, combined with maximum personal effort. These are times when huge systems of various kinds limit people's access - to food, to living without the terrors of war in their neighborhoods, to basic education, to finding at least minimal employment, to basic shelter, and to basic health care. Unless we begin to understand the systems and their effects on individuals, we cannot deal with the contradictions individuals face. Governments can surely provide unhelpful systems as well as being helpful. Corporations are generally more nimble and clever than governments, and their systemic effects on everything from the food supply, medications, employment, to making the case for war, are huge now, both for better and for worse.
How do we ensure access so that every person is able through their efforts to meet the basic needs of themselves and their families? In our small city in the richest nation in the world the churches that work with feeding the hungry (increasingly families with children and 2 full-time low wage workers) are finding themselves close to being swamped with new folks, breaking records each quarter recently. Those who help them say these are not lazy people. Is it important to have individual charity? O yes. Is it important to have a safety net such as food stamps available for everyone who needs it? Yes again. Those in my community who are most involved with the charity of the free health clinic or the food pantries are very glad for government involvement in providing basic programs for folks in need. All systems need critiquing and participation towards improvement - and this is part of what we need to do as citizens, as Those Who Care.
This means more than just making existing systems work more efficiently. It means asking questions about whether and how these systems need to be changed.
Our present health care system is so broken in so many ways! Do we need compatible electronic systems for health records? Do we need to standardize and simplify healthcare billing? Do we need to look at the effect of lawsuit settlements on the cost of healthcare (tort reform)? Do we need to look at duplication of expensive diagnostic machines in the same city? Do we need to change incentives in the way that primary care physicians are paid? Do we need to be able to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies? Do we need to change incentives so that health insurance companies are not most "successful" - profitable - when they deny the most care? Do we need to look at providing incentives for preventive care? Do we need to look at hospital services in a given area - are there too many beds? Are emergency rooms swamped? As the healthcare provider of last resort, hospitals have to find a way to pay for serving the uninsured - is there a better way? What is the effect on businesses - especially small businesses- of the cost of health care? How do we stimulate cost-saving, innovative competition in health insurance?
These are some of the questions being discussed. Lobbyists are working full-time to strategize the best deal for their clients. We may not have the money they do, but we can make a difference.
Janice Ulangca
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Fertig
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Cc: 'Colleague Dialogue'
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
Perhaps I should explain that I do want everyone to eat, absolutely. I've spent much of my life working on that. Is it a right? No. I think we need to define what me mean by a "right" and whether it is government that fulfills all needs.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes
tel: (703) 751-5956
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From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of James Wiegel
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:22 AM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Cc: Colleague Dialogue
Subject: [Oe List ...] Does the Big Sort give any clues?
I found myself struggling with this in early July, near Jerusalem, in working with a pilot for bringing together the sides in the Israeli - Palestinian conflict. With people in violent conflict, it is not clear that there is anything "in common" on which to base decisions for the future. It was pointed out that using "rights" language puts people into the position of being ready to fight for what they see as justice, whereas using the language of basic human needs puts people in more of a place to inquire what is possible.
Even so, what are these basic human needs and who is the guarantor? Even in the constitution they were stated as "self evident"
Maybe there is something deeper going on in this shrill American debate? I wonder if anyone who has been studying The Big Sort might have a thought?
Jim
Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. G. K. Chesterton
Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:
From: Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 11:35 AM
No.
Susan Fertig-Dykes
tel: (703) 751-5956
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From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of A.M. Noel
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:26 PM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Susan Fertig
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Alerding
Do we have a right to eat?
Susan Fertig-Dykes
tel: (703) 751-5956
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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