[Oe List ...] Niebuhr/Tillich, etc.

[RICHARD HOWIE]

...and from a 12 Step spirituality perspective:  The community  
gathers around one another in the midst of a Higher Power (G-O-D for  
some), supporting one another and striving to live the principles of  
the 12 steps in all one's affairs. seeking progress, not perfection;   
this community is present around the globe and has been both life- 
saving as well as life-giving for many.
Grace & Peace,
Ellen
On May 6, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Janice Ulangca wrote:

> A thought-provoking conversation.  What especially struck me:  Jon  
> Elizondo's fine poetry, including his response to Rumi; and John  
> Epps' comments about cultures.  When I first began teaching in the  
> Philippines, my students surprised me by inquiring about my family,  
> who they had not met and would never meet, since my family lived in  
> Iowa.  When they heard that I had just one sibling, a sister 13  
> months younger (very important to know the elder and the younger),   
> spontaneous expressions of sympathy came out.  "Oh, very lonely,  
> ma'am!" they exclaimed.  Having an individualistic U.S.A. mindset,  
> I had never thought of myself as lonely because I had only one  
> sister.  But to them, having just one sibling meant I was missing a  
> lot, and my family is a part of who I am - I am not separate, and  
> cannot be understood apart from them.  As I write, I also recognize  
> that while my relationship is not as long nor as deep as some,  the  
> O:E will always be part of who I am.
>
> Finally, a paragraph from Randy Williams about going on to  
> wholeness.  This reminds me of  a key point from John Shelby Spong  
> - that Jesus can be our guide into becoming fully human.  I am  
> privileged to know a few folks who seem far along that path toward  
> becoming fully human - and what spirit they bring into every  
> situation!
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> Janice Ulangca
>
> From Jon  Elizondo:
> We are beyond where some of those writers were... we are adding to  
> their thoughts and ideas.  Our experience is always growing...  
> building.
> That is my experience of life.
>
> AND we are the Master Dreamers.
>
> That is why it is so important to ponder Rumi's call.
> "What do we really want?"
>
> Do you want separation?  you will see it and create it.
> Do you want grace and/or connection to the oneness of all that is?   
> It is there and you can see it and create it unless you have an  
> underlying belief that you can't.
> The story creates the event.
>
> ****
> On perfection...
> look at the sunrise
> a perfect sunrise, right?
> Does it stay the same?
> and tomorrow is another perfect sunrise, and yet it is not the same.
>
> Speaking only for myself and my belief and life experience...
>
> Perfection is a dance of Original Blessing of the Mystery that We Are.
>
> ******
>
> From John Epps:
>
> I've been interested lately in cultures and their differences of  
> perception. It seems that many cultures do not find individual  
> separation the jinx that we do in the West. There is a  
> "communitarian" assumption, not an "individualistic" one. By that,  
> I mean that for many cultures, the basic unit is the group, not the  
> individual. People assume they "fit in," and their striving has to  
> do less for individual achievement than for honoring, protecting,  
> and strengthening the group. You don't, for example, motivate  
> people by awards for individual performance but for team successes.  
> When there is failure to live up to demands, the experience is not  
> guilt but shame (you have dishonored your group).
>
> For more on this see Fons Trompenaars & Charles Hampden-Turner,  
> Riding the Waves of Culture: Understanding Cultural diversity in  
> Business  (London: Nicholas Breadley Publishing, 1997).
>
> I'm sure what we point to with "separation" and "alienation" and  
> other such terms applies equally to those cultures, but the terms  
> will be different. It seems these days important to demythologize  
> not only in terms of 21st century mindsets but also of global  
> mindsets.
>
> From Randy Williams:
>
> Think of "incompleteness" in the context of Tillich's "sin as  
> separation."  If I'm separated from my own mystery, depth and  
> greatness, from my neighbor and the ground of being itself, I think  
> it's safe to say I'm incomplete.  This, it seems to me, is to see  
> the situation in terms of the ontological, existential, indicative,  
> etc. but clearly not as an issue of morality.
>
> So, for me my human striving is not to "go on to perfection" but  
> "to go on to completion," to become reunited with the G-O-B, self  
> and neighbor and to thus experience myself as whole.  In the quest  
> I discover that my completeness/wholeness is all wrapped up with  
> everyone and everything else's completeness and wholeness.  Where  
> anyone or anything is less than whole, I am diminished as well.   
> Therefore my striving is to serve all creation, not so that it may  
> be "un-flawed," but so that it may experience and live out of its  
> completeness/wholeness and in the process I, as a part of all  
> creation, may experience and live out of my completeness/wholeness  
> as well, to the degree that that is possible, assuming JWM was  
> right, this side of the grave.
>
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