[Oe List ...] Over and out for awhile

[Susan Fertig]

Guys, this has been interesting. I hope we've each given eacha other
something to think about and explore intellectually and responsibly. And
now, I'm taking a break. Got other things to do for awhile.
 
Cheers,
 
Susan
 

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Dave Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:49 PM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and
Conservative



Learn more about Liberals and the types of Conservatives (Traditional
Conservatives, Libertarians, Christian Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives)
who oppose them at
http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/05AboutLiberals.htm  

 

Also note our Liberal Priorities, which Conservatives consistently oppose:

*       Fair Clean Elections and Open Government 

*       Fair Taxes and Competent Spending

*       Investment for Productivity

*       Quality Health, Education, Jobs, Income 

*       Environmental Protection and Energy Independence

*       Security and Equal Rights 

*       Justice and Peace Everywhere

*       International Cooperation and Leadership

 

 
<http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/20ConservativesOpposeOurPrioriti
es.htm> Conservatives oppose all of these  Dave Thomas

 

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of ed feldmanis
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:59 PM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we mean by a right? To Jim, Dave,et.al. re:
Conservativism

 

Jim,

The most eloquent modern day description that I have seen is in the book
Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.

I have to agree with Dave as far as his description goes. Here is where I
found the problem, at least for me: Conservatives may give lip service to
these values, but they intolerantly restrict the freedoms and opportunities
they would offer people different from themselves, often valuing the freedom
of businesses more than the freedom of individuals.  

I find that statement in general to be devastatingly true and possibly
un-American. However, I don't agree that every conservative is merely giving
lip service. My own impression is that Barry Goldwater was very sincere and
specific in his book. At the point of writing the book, in my opinion, there
was some sense in that folks still wanted to make America work for everybody
and they thought they had more common ground than there is today.

For a while it, the Goldwater book, was the standard of what a conservative
was. Conservativism was tied to merit, learning,  service, pay as you go
spending, and the wide spread use of incentives before deciding to create an
agency; and, by the way, there was some sense of what is called state-craft.
If pushed beyond Goldwater to Teddy Roosevelt it was also tied to
conservation.  I think in my time this is as close to having a dynamic -
conservativism- defined in some stability. (Notice some of the liberalism
inherent in the above description.)

Where I really disagree is where many people simply call the new crowd
conservatives; for example, the crowd now in power and mostly Southerners
and their business conspirators. The label, I think, in this case, is a cop
out for the sake of convenience.  In my mind, I can not get the label of
conservative to stick on extremists or people who have neo-fascist ideas.
These are the same people who called Goldwater a liberal. And they are the
so-called conservatives of our day.  I don't buy it, but the press and then
everyone else seems to.

Ed




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