[Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and Conservative
ed feldmanis
edfeldmanis at gmail.com
Wed Sep 2 20:02:38 CDT 2009
Dave,
It does seem to be unfair to label "Traditional Conservatives" with the same
brush as the rest of the bunch you mention. I can't defend them and I am
not one of them. They need to speak up. The traditional conservatives may
be all dead; (tongue in cheek) possibly murdered by the rest of the crowd.
It is the traditionalists that are targets. Today they are misnamed as
Republican moderates. They certainly aren't. Yet they are the ones that get
whacked on the state level. The book called the Big Sort tells this story.
Also the Republican political gang, called the Republican "Club for Growth"
attacks and destroys the careers of the Traditional Conservatives, known
today as moderates.
Ed
2009/9/2 Dave Thomas <davthom at att.net>
> Learn more about Liberals and the types of Conservatives (Traditional
> Conservatives, Libertarians, Christian Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives)
> who oppose them at
> http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/05AboutLiberals.htm
>
>
>
> Also note our Liberal Priorities, which Conservatives consistently oppose:
>
> · Fair Clean Elections and Open Government
>
> · Fair Taxes and Competent Spending
>
> · Investment for Productivity
>
> · Quality Health, Education, Jobs, Income
>
> · Environmental Protection and Energy Independence
>
> · Security and Equal Rights
>
> · Justice and Peace Everywhere
>
> · International Cooperation and Leadership
>
>
>
> *Conservatives oppose all of these*<http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/20ConservativesOpposeOurPriorities.htm>
> Dave Thomas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On
> Behalf Of *ed feldmanis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:59 PM
> *To:* oe at wedgeblade.net
> *Subject:* [Oe List ...] What do we mean by a right? To Jim, Dave,et.al.
> re: Conservativism
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> The most eloquent modern day description that I have seen is in the book
> Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.
>
> I have to agree with Dave as far as his description goes. Here is where I
> found the problem, at least for me: Conservatives may give lip service to
> these values, but they intolerantly restrict the freedoms and opportunities
> they would offer people different from themselves, often valuing the freedom
> of businesses more than the freedom of individuals.
>
> I find that statement in general to be devastatingly true and possibly
> un-American. However, I don't agree that every conservative is merely giving
> lip service. My own impression is that Barry Goldwater was very sincere and
> specific in his book. At the point of writing the book, in my opinion, there
> was some sense in that folks still wanted to make America work for everybody
> and they thought they had more common ground than there is today.
>
> For a while it, the Goldwater book, was the standard of what a conservative
> was. Conservativism was tied to merit, learning, service, pay as you go
> spending, and the wide spread use of incentives before deciding to create an
> agency; and, by the way, there was some sense of what is called
> state-craft. If pushed beyond Goldwater to Teddy Roosevelt it was also tied
> to conservation. I think in my time this is as close to having a dynamic -
> conservativism- defined in some stability. (Notice some of the liberalism
> inherent in the above description.)
>
> Where I really disagree is where many people simply call the new crowd
> conservatives; for example, the crowd now in power and mostly Southerners
> and their business conspirators. The label, I think, in this case, is a cop
> out for the sake of convenience. In my mind, I can not get the label of
> conservative to stick on extremists or people who have neo-fascist ideas.
> These are the same people who called Goldwater a liberal. And they are the
> so-called conservatives of our day. I don't buy it, but the press and then
> everyone else seems to.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
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