[Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and Conservati ve

[jonzondo at juno.com]

1)Most conservatives I know support Diebold voting machines.  Some make money off of them.  And in Washington State, there was conservative resistance to a paper trail.
2) The elections of 2000 and 2004 and the lack of interest in counting every vote.
3) Discussions with my conservative relatives.
4) "Illegal" Phone calls made in several states to my friends of different ethnicities giving false information about the 2008 election, all in an effort to reduce the number of people voting for Obama.

I hope that all people are ready for fair clean elections.  That will be a blessing.

Jon Elizondo
  	

You've got to be kidding!  Where could you possibly have come up with the idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open government? 
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You've got to be kidding!  Where could you possibly have come up with the
idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open government?
Part of the huge problem with Obama is that he promised transparency and
hasn't practiced it.  And can you possibly know about Acorn and think the
Democrats are all about clean electins? Conservatives support everything on
your list. They just don't support distortion and manipulation of all those
issues.
 
Susan
 

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Dave Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:49 PM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and
Conservative



Learn more about Liberals and the types of Conservatives (Traditional
Conservatives, Libertarians, Christian Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives)
who oppose them at
http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/05AboutLiberals.htm  

 

Also note our Liberal Priorities, which Conservatives consistently oppose:

*       Fair Clean Elections and Open Government 

*       Fair Taxes and Competent Spending

*       Investment for Productivity

*       Quality Health, Education, Jobs, Income 

*       Environmental Protection and Energy Independence

*       Security and Equal Rights 

*       Justice and Peace Everywhere

*       International Cooperation and Leadership

 

 
<http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/bootcamp/20ConservativesOpposeOurPrioriti
es.htm> Conservatives oppose all of these  Dave Thomas

 

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of ed feldmanis
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:59 PM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we mean by a right? To Jim, Dave,et.al. re:
Conservativism

 

Jim,

The most eloquent modern day description that I have seen is in the book
Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.

I have to agree with Dave as far as his description goes. Here is where I
found the problem, at least for me: Conservatives may give lip service to
these values, but they intolerantly restrict the freedoms and opportunities
they would offer people different from themselves, often valuing the freedom
of businesses more than the freedom of individuals.  

I find that statement in general to be devastatingly true and possibly
un-American. However, I don't agree that every conservative is merely giving
lip service. My own impression is that Barry Goldwater was very sincere and
specific in his book. At the point of writing the book, in my opinion, there
was some sense in that folks still wanted to make America work for everybody
and they thought they had more common ground than there is today.

For a while it, the Goldwater book, was the standard of what a conservative
was. Conservativism was tied to merit, learning,  service, pay as you go
spending, and the wide spread use of incentives before deciding to create an
agency; and, by the way, there was some sense of what is called state-craft.
If pushed beyond Goldwater to Teddy Roosevelt it was also tied to
conservation.  I think in my time this is as close to having a dynamic -
conservativism- defined in some stability. (Notice some of the liberalism
inherent in the above description.)

Where I really disagree is where many people simply call the new crowd
conservatives; for example, the crowd now in power and mostly Southerners
and their business conspirators. The label, I think, in this case, is a cop
out for the sake of convenience.  In my mind, I can not get the label of
conservative to stick on extremists or people who have neo-fascist ideas.
These are the same people who called Goldwater a liberal. And they are the
so-called conservatives of our day.  I don't buy it, but the press and then
everyone else seems to.

Ed




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