[Oe List ...] Deep culture behind our debate on health care reform

Elizabeth Caperton ecaperton at bellsouth.net
Thu Sep 3 12:40:53 CDT 2009


Marshall Rosenberg's work is amazing and deeply healing.  I have  
attended two of his workshops and he has much to share about peaceful  
resolutions to conflict, prison reform and education.  I highly  
recommend his work.

On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Janice Ulangca wrote:

Interesting, Jim - rings true as I think about conflicts we  
experience and hear about.  Thanks.

Reminds me of . . .
This summer I led a group in 6 sessions introducing Nonviolent  
Communication (NVC).  I wanted to explore it, had only read one book  
and seen part of a DVD presentation by the founder, Marshall  
Rosenberg.  So I bought the DVD, had everyone buy the book, and  
expected I could muddle through with my ICA method experience.  It  
was much more than I bargained for - had me spending about 30 hours a  
week immersed in other NVC books and figuring how to get the  
participants to authentically encounter these strange ideas in  
relation to their own experience.  We did not publicize widely - just  
one pastor and a few friends - but more than 25 showed up.  (Thanks  
for your patience - I'm now getting to the point.)

Rosenberg has led conflict resolution in many situations - from  
couples who had a good marriage except for one argument which had  
continued  for 39 years - to leaders from warring African tribes.  He  
also tells of presenting NVC to a group of Palestinian Muslim men in  
a mosque in a refugee camp in Bethlehem.  A murmur went through the  
crowd when people realized he was American.  One man stood up and  
shouted, "Murderer!  Assassin!  Child-killer!"   Yet when he had  
listened to the man (for 20 minutes) and asked him about his  
experiences and feelings, the man ended up inviting Rosenberg to his  
home for a Ramadan dinner.  It strikes me that Rosenberg's approach  
is a way to allow people to move beyond the Cognitive and Emotional  
pathologies that Jim Wiegel describes.  Rosenberg says that his  
experience, over more than 20 years, indicates that when warring  
parties are each able to express the needs and feelings of the other  
- the "enemy" - to the other's satisfaction - "Yes, that is what I am  
saying" - that solutions will come.  There is quite a bit to this -  
but that's the gist.

Marshall Rosenberg's basic book is Nonviolent Communication - A  
Language of Life.  The 4-session DVD The Basics of Nonviolent  
Communication shows him leading a workshop and interacting with a  
group in San Francisco on one day.  The Center for Nonviolent  
Communication, located in Albuquerque,  has a web site  www.CNVC.org

Janice Ulangca



----- Original Message -----
From: James Wiegel
To: Order Ecumenical Community ; Colleague Dialogue ;  
springboard at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 6:52 AM
Subject: [Oe List ...] Deep culture behind our debate on health care  
reform

I can see, from this conversation, how much more is going on in the  
health care reform debate, and how much more is being added in, so it  
becomes an "argument about everything" . . . and this is among us, a  
quite small demographic of people, I think, with a shared history and  
a "transestablishment" (facilitative) perspective of brining people  
together for consensus, common vision, etc.

In the project I have been helping with re:  combining ICA's ToP and  
other methods for use in the Israeli - Palestinian conflict, one of  
the project partners talks about 3 levels of a conflict:  conflict  
over resources, conflict over goals, conflict over identities.  Their  
insight is that once a conflict becomes about identity, there is  
something non negotiable that enters in to the conversation.    
Another of the project partners talks about elements of the "deep  
culture" that fuel conflict -- a "cognitive pathology" and an  
"emotional pathology" (see below)


Deep Cultures often have elements which are counterproductive for  
peace. Two syndromes in particular can generally be identified. There  
is a cognitive pathology in Deep Culture which affects how a society  
thinks and analyses a conflict. There is also an Emotional pathology  
which strongly affect attitudes.
The Cognitive syndrome, DMA for short, is centered on Dichotomy  
(reducing the conflict to 2 conflict parties only)i, Manichaeism  
(where one side is “Good” and one side is “Evil”) and Armageddon  
(that there will be a final and inevitable battle in which Good  
decisively destroys Evil).
The Emotional syndrome, CGT for short, is centered on Chosenness (the  
belief that a group of people have been chosen by transcendental  
forces or history for a political mission), Glory (the myths of past  
and future glory, underscoring their Chosenness), and Trauma (the  
experience of past injuries and defeats, underscoring the need to  
pursue their Mission).
iWe reinforce this syndrome when we call the “Israeli – Palestinian”  
identities into the room



Jim

Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. G. K. Chesterton

Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Wed, 9/2/09, jonzondo at juno.com <jonzondo at juno.com> wrote:

From: jonzondo at juno.com <jonzondo at juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and  
Conservati ve
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:15 PM

1)Most conservatives I know support Diebold voting machines.  Some  
make money off of them.  And in Washington State, there was  
conservative resistance to a paper trail.
2) The elections of 2000 and 2004 and the lack of interest in  
counting every vote.
3) Discussions with my conservative relatives.
4) "Illegal" Phone calls made in several states to my friends of  
different ethnicities giving false information about the 2008  
election, all in an effort to reduce the number of people voting for  
Obama.

I hope that all people are ready for fair clean elections.  That will  
be a blessing.

Jon Elizondo


You've got to be kidding!  Where could you possibly have come up with  
the idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open  
government?
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You've got to be kidding!  Where could you possibly have come up with  
the idea that conservatives oppose fair clean elections and open  
government?  Part of the huge problem with Obama is that he promised  
transparency and hasn't practiced it.  And can you possibly know  
about Acorn and think the Democrats are all about clean electins?  
Conservatives support everything on your list. They just don't  
support distortion and manipulation of all those issues.

Susan


From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On  
Behalf Of Dave Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:49 PM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: [Oe List ...] More about the definitions of Liberal and  
Conservative

Learn more about Liberals and the types of Conservatives (Traditional  
Conservatives, Libertarians, Christian Conservatives and Neo- 
Conservatives) who oppose them at http://www.pugetsoundliberals.org/ 
bootcamp/05AboutLiberals.htm

Also note our Liberal Priorities, which Conservatives consistently  
oppose:
·       Fair Clean Elections and Open Government
·       Fair Taxes and Competent Spending
·       Investment for Productivity
·       Quality Health, Education, Jobs, Income
·       Environmental Protection and Energy Independence
·       Security and Equal Rights
·       Justice and Peace Everywhere
·       International Cooperation and Leadership

Conservatives oppose all of these  Dave Thomas

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On  
Behalf Of ed feldmanis
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:59 PM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we mean by a right? To Jim,  
Dave,et.al. re: Conservativism

Jim,

The most eloquent modern day description that I have seen is in the  
book Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.

I have to agree with Dave as far as his description goes. Here is  
where I found the problem, at least for me: Conservatives may give  
lip service to these values, but they intolerantly restrict the  
freedoms and opportunities they would offer people different from  
themselves, often valuing the freedom of businesses more than the  
freedom of individuals.

I find that statement in general to be devastatingly true and  
possibly un-American. However, I don't agree that every conservative  
is merely giving lip service. My own impression is that Barry  
Goldwater was very sincere and specific in his book. At the point of  
writing the book, in my opinion, there was some sense in that folks  
still wanted to make America work for everybody and they thought they  
had more common ground than there is today.

For a while it, the Goldwater book, was the standard of what a  
conservative was. Conservativism was tied to merit, learning,   
service, pay as you go spending, and the wide spread use of  
incentives before deciding to create an agency; and, by the way,  
there was some sense of what is called state-craft.  If pushed beyond  
Goldwater to Teddy Roosevelt it was also tied to conservation.  I  
think in my time this is as close to having a dynamic -  
conservativism- defined in some stability. (Notice some of the  
liberalism inherent in the above description.)

Where I really disagree is where many people simply call the new  
crowd conservatives; for example, the crowd now in power and mostly  
Southerners and their business conspirators. The label, I think, in  
this case, is a cop out for the sake of convenience.  In my mind, I  
can not get the label of conservative to stick on extremists or  
people who have neo-fascist ideas.  These are the same people who  
called Goldwater a liberal. And they are the so-called conservatives  
of our day.  I don't buy it, but the press and then everyone else  
seems to.

Ed




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