[Oe List ...] Canadian Health System
Jack Gilles
icabombay at igc.org
Thu Sep 3 18:31:01 CDT 2009
George,
The trends you speak about may be true. But the trend upward of
health costs versus projected income (if there isn't a change in
services, taxes or cost reductions) is pretty clear. Health costs are
going up everywhere, some at a sustainable basis and some not.
Clearly in the US it is not sustainable and I was asking if that is
true for Canada? I don't know, but some have said it is. So I
wouldn't dismiss the question simply because it contains a
projection. We need facts and data, not opinions. So unless there is
a counter trend of 'wellness" on its way, which there well may be,
then we need to look at the consequences of a continued rise. It's
1/6 of the US economy now and projections (sorry about that word) say
it's headed for 50% in our lifetime. If true, what do we do?
Jack
On Sep 3, 2009, at 6:21 PM, George Holcombe wrote:
> How many of our projections, government, scientific institutions,
> universities, think tanks, etc. have been accurate? I remember in
> the 70's projections of little oil by the 90's, full employment in
> the 90's, great reductions in poverty, etc. None of these have been
> close. I've consulted for a few companies that hired folks, who
> produced very rosy projections based on "the data." A couple of
> them are no longer in being. I recall one of the church
> consultants who projected that the inner city churches I worked with
> in the 80's would be closed in 5 years, by the data. They are all
> still going. What is the role of projections?
>
> George Holcombe
> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
> Austin, TX 78728
> Home: 512/252-2756
> Mobile 512/294-5952
> geowanda at earthlink.net
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I agree with all of your points. But there does seem to be at
>> least SOME people in Canada who are claiming that the present
>> system is not sustainable. From what I've read (limited for sure)
>> there are people calling for some type of overall or adjustments to
>> keep all the points you mention fully functioning. It may be years
>> away from a crisis, but is it or is it not true that there are
>> issues on its long range sustainability including Provincial
>> funding abilities? That's what I'd like to hear from you who
>> obviously is much more aware of the future of Canadian health
>> systems than most of us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jack
>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 4:43 PM, Sandra Rafos wrote:
>>
>>> Well, well, well, I am sorely disappointed to hear that my health
>>> care system is on the verge of collapse. Someone should inform
>>> the Canadian citizenry rather than trying to mislead the people of
>>> the US. As a dual citizen I am deeply appreciative of the Health
>>> Care system in Canada.
>>>
>>> 1. Everyone is covered, even landed immigrants, i.e non-citizens.
>>>
>>> 2. Service is provided through your primary physician. The
>>> choice of a physician is entirely yours.
>>>
>>> 3. The primary physician provides treatment and determines the
>>> seriousness of your illness or injury.
>>>
>>> 4. Critical and life threatening cases are referred to hospitals
>>> and specialists and treated immediately.
>>>
>>> 5. Referrals to specialists for non-life threatening cases wait
>>> for treatment or services.
>>>
>>> 6. Annual exams are free as well as a host of preventative tests;
>>> mammograms, ekgs, colonoscopy, blood and urine analysis, chest x-
>>> rays, bone density scans, etc.
>>>
>>> 7. Hospitals and doctors are private.
>>>
>>> 8. Fees for procedures are established by the Health Care system,
>>> and doctors and hospitals are reimbursed through it.
>>>
>>> 9. All procedures and semi-private hospital room is paid by the
>>> Health Care system.
>>>
>>> 10. The price of drugs is established by the government.
>>>
>>> 11. Over 65 there is no charge for drugs. Younger than 65, there
>>> may be modest co-pay.
>>>
>>> 12. Many people carry supplemental health care for dental,
>>> eyeglasses, massage, chiropractor, private room, travel out-of-
>>> country, etc.
>>>
>>> 13. People CANNOT sue their doctor. Malpractice cases are
>>> handled through a board of doctors and health officials. The out
>>> come of judgements can be fines, suspension of a license for a
>>> period of time, or loss of a license permanently.
>>>
>>> 14. Ergo, there is no hefty malpractice insurance that has to be
>>> carried by doctors, which goes a long way to reducing medical costs.
>>>
>>> I have had knee surgery, eye surgery, surgery for pre-cancer
>>> conditions, treatment for shingles, flu shots, medications and
>>> have never paid for anything.
>>>
>>> This is not just for me or my family but for everyone. I sleep
>>> well at night knowing that my friends and neighbors (known or
>>> unknown to me) are covered.
>>>
>>> My personal view is that healthcare is a RIGHT for everyone, just
>>> like a child has a right to an education, or people have a right
>>> to clean water, electricity, fuel for home, highways, police and
>>> fire protection, etc. All of the above are provided for or
>>> regulated by the government. This is a moral issue, not a
>>> financial one, and I hope Obama has the courage to take it to the
>>> mat.
>>>
>>> I am also clear that if you want a universal system, then it has
>>> to be paid for. Taxes in Canada are high, and the burden falls
>>> heaviest on the wealthiest. It is a fair system, and the cost of
>>> care per citizen is about 1/2 that of the US and life expectancy
>>> is higher than that of the US. I have never heard of a family in
>>> Canada having to go bankrupt, because they couldn't pay their
>>> medical bills.
>>>
>>> With respect,
>>>
>>> Bob Rafos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2-Sep-09, at 8:02 PM, Susan Fertig wrote:
>>>
>>>> I heard it repeated several times on different media late last
>>>> week -- I'll try to find out which Canadian minister it was who
>>>> was quoted. Did none of you in ICA Canada hear this?
>>>>
>>>> Susan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-
>>>> bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of LAURELCG at aol.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:22 AM
>>>> To: oe at wedgeblade.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A Matter of Human Rights
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 9/1/2009 9:31:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, susan at gmdtech.com
>>>> writes:
>>>> Canada has already proclaimed that its health system is
>>>> unsustainable and has warned the U.S. against using it as a model.
>>>> I wasn't aware of this, Susan. Do you have a source?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jann
>>>>
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