[Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65

Don Elliott dpelliott at aol.com
Tue Sep 8 17:52:54 CDT 2009


Here is the letter referred to in my previous posting.




the great conflict 

  

Ganesh [elephant God] the birth day of lord Ganesh who was the son of Shiva and Parvati celebrated with a great joy by all Hindu people in the last week of August and its celebration goes on to first week of September. 

  

Hindu people believe that lord Ganesh gives good rains and good harvest and prosperity in people’s lives. It is observed during the Hindu month of Bhadra. The size of this idol may vary from ¾ of an inch to over 25 feet. On the day of the festival the idol is placed on a raised platform, decorated, for the people to view and pay their homage. The priest usually clad in the red silk dhoti and shawl, then invokes life into the idols amid the chanting of mantras. There are 16 ways of paying tribute like coconuts, jaggery, rice, red flowers. 

  

On the last day [on 10th day] all the people shout Ganapati Bappa Morya Pudchaya Varshi Loukariya (O Father come again early next year).   And then they immerse Ganesh in to the river.  During this ten days they do not look at the moon and avoid company of all those who do not believe in god. They do not eat mutton and eggs. They prefer vegetable diet. 

  

This years Ramadan holy 40 days of fasting for Muslims came during the Ganesh Festival. 

  

On 25/08/2009 Hindu people placed on the door post of Miraj Fort market the photo of Abzalkhan who was a20great warrior before British came to India. The great warrior Abzalkhan was Muslim. He was killed by Hindu King named Shivaji, Maharaja of Maharashtra India. By putting the portrait of Shivaji Maharaj and Abzalkhan the sentiments of Muslims people were hurts. 

  

Therefore, Muslim people got angry they tore down the photo which was placed on door post of fort of Miraj Market and conflict started. Muslim used attack response in resolving conflict. While fighting Muslims threw stones and one of the hands of the idol Ganesh was broken. Next day Muslim defiled the Ganesh idols by throwing pieces of beef in the Hindu Ganesh temple. In Miraj muslim people are in majority. 

  

The situation is out of control. The Hindus are in majority in remote villages therefore, they broke down a number of mosques and defiled mosques by throwing killed swine into the mosques in the neighboring villages.  Now Muslims also are wild and angry. 

  

The situation is very serious. The breaking of mosques and destroying the property of Muslim people has spread into a number of villages. 

  

Since 06/09/2009 the government of Maharashtra  has  declared  emergency in District Sangli and Miraj. Around 20000 police from the other districts are deputied in the district sangli, Miraj and surrounding villages. We are not allowed to go outside of our houses. All the Government and non-government offices are closed. All the transportation and communication systems are stopped  and paralyzed.C2 All medical stores and private hospitals are closed. The hospital staff cannot go to do duty. 

All the schools and colleges are closed by order.  Totally 1000 people are arrested and in Police custody. Number of people are hurt and killed in police thathi charge. 

  

Because of this situation poor and sick people are suffering a lot. This situation will continue for another 15 days.  The emergency is declared in District Kolhapur and Satara. The ripples of this situation are found in Mumbai also. 

  

I knew the situation will go from bad to worse. Therefore on 01/09/2009 five days in advance before the emergency declared I preserved food commodities in the store room of Home of Hope both in Bamnoli village as well as in Digraj for about three months in advance. So that all our children will be safe. 

  

Today is 8/09/ 2009 Rapid police force is deployed in Sagali. In this letter I humbly and sincerely request you please pray for this situation. So that Lord Jesus Christ will give wisdom and knowledge and understanding to the Government authorities who make decision and well as both Hindu and Muslim religious leaders to resolve this conflict. So that there will be peace and harmony. 

  

Rev. Timothy Jalam 

 


 



 

Don Elliott
9400 E Iliff Ave #361
Denver, CO 80231
303 695 4688 (H), 303 378 9175 (C)


-----Original Message-----
From: oe-request at wedgeblade.net
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:35 p
m
Subject: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65



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oday's Topics:
   1. Health Care - engagement (Jean Watts)
  2. Health Care - engagement (Jean Watts)
  3. Re: ENGAGEMENT (Don Elliott)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
ate: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:35:46 -0500
rom: "Jean Watts" <jeanwatts at cox.net>
ubject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - engagement
o: <oe at wedgeblade.net>
c: jeanwatts at cox.net
essage-ID: <3134F3613BB142ACBFF4C2DAD3CDB916 at JEANSLAPTOP>
ontent-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

im, I've never uncovered underlying assumptions using the workshop process.
 have never been trying to get a consensus at this point but only wanted to
stablish the most appropriate environment/context for the visioning
rocess.  I've used either a modified form of the paradigm shift framework
r the spiral dynamics framework to uncover these underlying assumptions.
hile participating in the process itself somehow, the 'context' and
oundaries of the content, (e.g. what are we pointing to with the verbal
ymbol 'health care?' gets clarified so everyone is on the same page.  
Thus, this i
s 'the product' and the next step is the vision question and the
trategic planning process.
When using the paradigm shift framework, I ask questions like:
hat practices, actions, approaches, policies etc. once worked but have now
isappeared, are no longer ineffective, or no longer do?
What practices, actions, approaches are presently standard operating
rocedures or have been firmly established within this field or present
ystem?
What are innovative or new practices, actions, approaches that are being
ried or picking up momentum and acceptance? 
What are creative ideas, never-tried approaches and practices that you think
ust might work or are ideas beginning to emerge within this sector?
Once these have been listed, (they are already clustered under their
uestion using titles like Dying, Established, Emerging, Boundary), I ask
he group to list the underlying assumptions and beliefs under each cluster.
Reflections questions on the shifts, trends, etc. then follows.  What is
mportant is that the group identifies what beliefs, values, or assumptions
anifested the various expressions which brought them to this present
ituation.
Thus far, I have only used the spiral dynamic framework with a group of
cademics or highly educated professionals. And so, it has been acceptable
o present the group with the values and assumptions already clustered into
emes with their corresponding healthy and unhealthy expressions and ask the
roup to identify where within their sector, field, or group they see each
aking place. Reflective questions then are asked 
on where they see people
pen or ready to change and exactly where they (since they have been those
ho have already taken responsibility for the change) are open or in the
rocess of changing. 
To date, neither of these facilitation processes created a polarized debate
r discussion between the participants nor did it result in 'name calling'
r 'bad mouthing.'
I think that the first process would probably be easier, therefore quicker,
ut the second one would set the context for a far more comprehensive vision
nd plan. 
However, one major differences in either case is that the group of
articipants [which is probably only a small number of those on this list
erve - my assumption :)] that will be participating may not in the position
o implement their vision so any plan we come up with will be one that only
nvolves how we might influence those who are developing and implementing
t. So this exercise might tend to be experienced as rather abstract.  
I think we might need to find out how many of the people on this list serve
re both interested in and have time to participate first. And then see
hich process these individuals are most comfortable with. 
This health care issue is not just a national one but a global one. But as
ar as health care within the United States, the present consensus seems to
e to give the responsibility of decision making to our elected political
igures who most of who have never seen or experienced the kind of
acilitation processes we, as the Order helped develop
. They use a very
ifferent process to come up with their final decisions. So, I am asking
yself, why is this particular group even willing to take this vision
rocess on? Why even am I willing to? Why are you willing to?
ean 
-----Original Message-----
rom: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
f oe-request at wedgeblade.net
ent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:31 AM
o: oe at wedgeblade.net
ubject: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 63
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oday's Topics:
   1. Re: Health Care - ENGAGEMENT (James Wiegel)
  2. Re: Health Care - ENGAGEMENT (David & Lin Zahrt)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

o, what would the workshop question be, Jean?
"What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?"? or, 
What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we see in people related to
his topic?" or, 
What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present that
ake this topic so controversial?"
Do you get diametrically opposed ones?? do you organize them by topic (all
hese are assumptions about the role of government) or by similar ass
umption
r belief?
What is next?? What do you do with the product?
I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if
eople wanted to contribute and once I get back home (after the 24th) would
elp with organizing, etc.
Jim

Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun.  G. K. Chesterton

Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277
   jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com
--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:
From: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
ubject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
o: oe at wedgeblade.net
ate: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM
I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
ommunities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that uncovered
he group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their practical
ision.? It appeared that it was at this level where the "real" conflict of
erspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was rooted.

WM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting out
ur self understanding."? Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
nderlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.? One of the ways these are
acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and solutions
o the issues within the content being discussed. 
These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a state of
ovement or evolution.? So, by beginning at this point, it enabled the group

o begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
ast stuff that has brought them to this present situation. 
So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
ocus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.? 
Namaste,
ean
Message: 1
ate: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
rom: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
ubject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
o: Order Ecumenical Community? <oe at wedgeblade.net>
essage-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Thanks, David.
I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the gestalting 
ight be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be 
illing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be happy 
o play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
 ? ? ???1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a 
esirable health care system look like? What are components of the desired 
ystem?
 ? ? ???2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
 ? ? ???3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to 
rovide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
 ? ? ???4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and then 
ettle on the ones with greatest consensus.
Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the 
trategy.
The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual 
eetings, and there are mu
ltiple software and web-based programmes that can 
e used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so 
hile we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group would 
ike to play a role in this on the listserve.
While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly generate 
ome innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
nows?
John
**********************************

______________________________________________
E mailing list
E at wedgeblade.net
ttp://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net

      
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Message: 2
ate: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:31:01 +0100
rom: David & Lin Zahrt <chbnb at netins.net>
ubject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
o: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue ICA
   <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
essage-ID: <CA893605-65DF-4A71-AB78-D7795E89BE03 at netins.net>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
   DelSp="yes"
Good Jeanie,
You're ready to start it? What's the first question? How do we proceed?
ets have this insight open the door rather than close it!
David Z
n Sep 6, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Watts wrote:
I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
ommunities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that  
ncovered
he group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their  
ractical
ision.  It=2
0appeared that it was at this level where the "real"  
onflict of
erspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was  
ooted.

WM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of  
cting out
ur self understanding."  Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
nderlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.  One of the ways these are
acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and  
olutions
o the issues within the content being discussed.
These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a  
tate of
ovement or evolution.  So, by beginning at this point, it enabled  
he group
o begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on  
he
ast stuff that has brought them to this present situation.
So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
ocus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.
Namaste,
ean
Message: 1
ate: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
rom: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
ubject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
o: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
essage-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Thanks, David.
I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the  
estalting
ight be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be
illing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be  
appy
o play a second role. Seems to me the job wil
l be:
         1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a
esirable health care system look like? What are components of the  
esired
ystem?
         2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
         3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to
rovide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
         4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week)  
nd then
ettle on the ones with greatest consensus.
Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the
trategy.
The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual
eetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes  
hat can
e used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to  
earn, so
hile we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group  
ould
ike to play a role in this on the listserve.
While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly  
enerate
ome innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
nows?
John
**********************************

______________________________________________
E mailing list
E at wedgeblade.net
ttp://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
David & Lin Zahrt
2133 Larpenteur Rd
urin, IA 51040
- Doorway to the Loess Hills 
ttp://www.country-homestead.com
here a change of pace is as good as a vacation, and a sense of place  
s soothing to the soul.
  <chbnb at netins.net>
Skype <loesshills>


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nd of OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 63
*********************************


-----------------------------
Message: 2
ate: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:01:35 -0500
rom: "Jean Watts" <jeanwatts at cox.net>
ubject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - engagement
o: <oe at wedgeblade.net>
essage-ID: <9B9B0A9E4A2F4351AD975DA8BACBA96D at JEANSLAPTOP>
ontent-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

ayne,
 went to the website but couldn't get a feel as to how this tool works.
ut I'ld be willing to pursue it. Will it work for either of the processes I
uggested to Jim?  
ean
Message: 1
ate: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:00:36 -0400
rom: Wayne  Nelson <wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
ubject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
o: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>,   Order Ecumenical
   Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>,  Jo Nelson
jnelson at ica-associates.ca>
essage-ID: <C6CBDBC4.69DF%wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

e at ICA in Canada have a license for a tool called ?Elluminate.?  It?s an
nline tool in which we can do an entire workshop as well as other things.
e?re just learning to use it. We?ve done a couple of workshops and other
hings with it.  Our intention is to use it in client work. Without
uestion, it will pay its way. With shrinking budgets and travel fears
elated to=2
0flu etc, this will hopefully position us to do substantial work
n the virtual environment.
You can try it out by going to http://elluminate.com.  The trial version
nly allows 3 people, so you and 2 others can get a feel for it. That?s what
o and I and John Miller did. Jo set it up and we did a whole little
orkshop. Blew our minds entirely.
Our version allows us to include up to 100 people. That would be far too
any for this kind of use.  My guess is that a group of 15 - 20 would be
retty large, but not impossible. Because the software includes a
hiteboard. Ideas can be written on ?cards? and moved around on the board.
ecause of the size of the whiteboard, I?d guess that it can easily handle
0 some ideas ? not many more. It has built in VIOP; so no need for a
eparate phone connection.
Participants need a high speed connection and a way to handle sound - like
he $10 headphones with a mic  you?d use for a Skype call.
We could host a workshop and work with someone to facilitate it.  We need
he practice and it would be cool to share this application with you. We?ve
een dreamining of an online ToP workshop since the 80?s; so this is a
ittle like finding the lost chord.
It works best when there is one person who is the facilitator and another
ho handles the technology ? flicking switches behind the curtain like the
izard of Oz - - - without the hokusy-pokusy stuff.  Since it?s  your idea,
ou?d need to decide who would be the facilitator. We?ll work with=2
0that
erson to make the session happen.
A workshop like this would really requires at least 2 sessions.
In the first session the participants get connected and familiar with the
echnology. That part takes about 45 minutes to an hour.  It?s necessary. If
t?s not done in a separate session, it will take up the first 40 ? 60
inutes of the initial meeting. It?s a natural, necessary part of this kind
f online collaboration. If you?re going to be a part of the workshop, you
ave to do the orientation. That?s it.
This session could include the contexting, instructions and the initial
rainstorm. My guess is that part would take another hour. That could be
one in another way as well. We have a tool we could use to collect ideas
hat can take place asynchronously.
In the second session the group can do the gestalting, naming and reflection
onversation. That?s probably an hour and a half or 2 hours.
Let me know if you?d like to pursue this.
\\/
"James Wiegel"  wrote:
> So, what would the workshop question be, Jean?
 
 "What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?"  or,
 "What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we see in people related
o
 this topic?" or, 
 "What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present
hat
 make this topic so controversial?"
 
 Do you get diametrically opposed ones?  do you organize them by topic (all
 these are assumptions about the role of government) or by similar
ssumption
 or belief?
 
 What is next?  What
 do you do with the product?
 
 I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if
 people wanted to contribute and once I get back home (after the 24th)
ould
 help with organizing, etc.
 
 Jim
 
 Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun.  G. K. Chesterton
 
 Jim Wiegel
 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
 +1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277
  jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com
 
 --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> From: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
> Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
> To: oe at wedgeblade.net
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM
> 
> I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
> communities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that
ncovered
> the group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their
ractical
> vision.  It appeared that it was at this level where the "real" conflict
f
> perspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was
ooted.
> 
> 
> JWM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting
ut
> our self understanding."  Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
> underlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.  One of the ways these are
> "acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and
olutions
> to the issues within the content being discussed.
> 
> These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a state
f
>20movement or evolution.  So, by beginning at this point, it enabled the
roup
> to begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
> past stuff that has brought them to this present situation.
> 
> So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
> focus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.
> 
> Namaste,
> Jean
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
> From: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> "
> <jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> >
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
> To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net
> </mc/compose?to=oe at wedgeblade.net> >
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my
> </mc/compose?to=5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Thanks, David.
> 
> I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the
estalting
> might be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be
> willing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be
appy
> to play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
>          1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a
> desirable health care system look like? What are components of the
esired
> system?
>          2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
>          3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group 
to
> provide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
>          4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and
hen
> settle on the ones with greatest consensus.
> 
> Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the
> strategy.
> 
> The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual
> meetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes that
an
> be used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so
> while we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group
ould
> like to play a role in this on the listserve.
> 
> While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly generate
> some innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
> knows?
> 
> John
> 
> **********************************
********************************


-----------------------------
Message: 3
ate: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:16:38 -0400
rom: Don Elliott <dpelliott at aol.com>
ubject: Re: [Oe List ...] ENGAGEMENT
o: dialogue at wedgeblade.net, oe at wedgeblade.net,
   jnelson at ica-associates.ca
essage-ID: <8CBFEBF41EEAF9F-2B64-2783C at webmail-m064.sysops.aol.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ayne,

Sounds great.? Using some non-controversial, or even mythical issue to learn the 
echnology would be like playing a game
o get used to the system, then maybe the first phase of an actual workshop to 
et people thinking about how best to
engage in the real workshop.? As to the use of the product, ICA-USA would 
pp
reciate a workshop on how to strengthen
the organization and become useful servants in these tumultuous times.? I 
uspect the health care issue, though interesting,
will largely be resolved by the time we get this project underway.? I would 
ather see us tackle an issue?where we know we
caqn make a real contribution.?

If you think we have a polarized society, see attached letter from a friend, a 
inister of the Church of North India, in Maharastra
where Jim Mathews worked for many years, and where Maliwada and Chikle are 
ocated.? I have gone every year, for 15 years, to 
Wanless Mission Hospital in Miraj to work with the heart surgeon there.? Timothy 
as started orphanages, one for boys, one for girls, 
for HIV/AIDS orphans, from the red light districts?of Miraj and Sangli.? A 
ospice for the sex workers dying of AIDS is under 
construction adjacent the orphanage for girls.? My daughter, Cynthia, who spent 
ight months in Maliwada when she was 17, went to
Miraj with me in January and helped plan the hospice facility.? Cynthia?works 
s?a hospice nurse in Santa Cruz, CA.


Don Elliott0A9400 E Iliff Ave #361
enver, CO 80231
03 695 4688 (H), 303 378 9175 (C)

----Original Message-----
rom: Wayne Nelson <wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
o: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community 
oe at wedgeblade.net>; Jo Nelson <jnelson at ica-associates.ca>
ent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 8:00 am
ubject: [Dialogue] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT

We at ICA in Canada have a license for a tool called ?Elluminate.? 
?It?s an 
nline tool in which we can do an entire workshop as well as other things. We?re 
ust learning to use it. We?ve done a couple of workshops and other things with 
t. ?Our intention is to use it in client work. Without question, it will pay 
ts way. With shrinking budgets and travel fears related to flu etc, this will 
opefully position us to do substantial work in the virtual environment.
You can try it out by going to http://elluminate.com. ?The trial version only 
llows 3 people, so you and 2 others can get a feel for it. That?s what Jo and I 
nd John Miller did. Jo set it up and we did a whole little workshop. Blew our 
inds entirely. 
Our version allows us to include up to 100 people. That would be far too many 
or this kind of use. ?My guess is that a group of 15 - 20 would be pretty 
arge, but not impossible. Because the software includes a whiteboard. Ideas can 
e written on ?cards? and moved around on the board. ?Because of the size of the 
hiteboard, I?d guess that it20can easily handle 40 some ideas ? not many more. 
t has built in VIOP; so no need for a separate phone connection.
Participants need a high speed connection and a way to handle sound - like the 
10 headphones with a mic ?you?d use for a Skype call.
We could host a workshop and work with someone to facilitate it. ?We need the 
ractice and it would be cool to share this application with you. We?ve been 
reamining of an online ToP workshop since the 80?s; s
o this is a little like 
inding the lost chord. 
It works best when there is one person who is the facilitator and another who 
andles the technology ? flicking switches behind the curtain like the wizard of 
z - - - without the hokusy-pokusy stuff. ?Since it?s ?your idea, you?d need to 
ecide who would be the facilitator. We?ll work with that person to make the 
ession happen. 
A workshop like this would really requires at least 2 sessions.
In the first session the participants get connected and familiar with the 
echnology. That part takes about 45 minutes to an hour. ?It?s necessary. If 
t?s not done in a separate session, it will take up the first 40 ? 60 minutes 
f the initial meeting. It?s a natural, necessary part of this kind of online 
ollaboration. If you?re going to be a part of the workshop, you have to do the 
rientation. That?s it. 
This session could include the contexting, instructions and the i
itial brainstorm. My guess is that part would take another hour. That could be 
one in another way as well. We have a tool we could use to collect ideas that 
an take place asynchronously.
In the second session the group can do the gestalting, naming and reflection 
onversation. That?s probably an hour and a half or 2 hours.
Let me know if you?d like to pursue this.
\\/
"James Wiegel" ?wrote:

o, what would the workshop question be, Jean?
"What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?" ?or, 
What are the underlying assumptions and belief
s we see in people related to 
his topic?" or, 
What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present that 
ake this topic so controversial?"
Do you get diametrically opposed ones? ?do you organize them by topic (all these 
re assumptions about the role of government) or by similar assumption or 
elief?
What is next? ?What do you do with the product?
I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if people 
anted to contribute and once I get back home (after the 24th) would help with 
rganizing, etc.
Jim
Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. ?G. K. Chesterton
Jim Wiegel
01 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
1 ?623-936-8671 ??+1 ?623-363-3277
jfwiegel at yahoo.com ??www.partnersinparticipation.com
--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:

rom: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
ubject: [Oe List20...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
o: oe at wedgeblade.net
ate: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM
I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
ommunities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that uncovered
he group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their practical
ision. ?It appeared that it was at this level where the "real" conflict of
erspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was rooted.

WM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting out
ur self understanding." ?Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
nderlying assumptions, beliefs, and values. ?One of the=2
0ways these are
acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and solutions
o the issues within the content being discussed. 
These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a state of
ovement or evolution. ?So, by beginning at this point, it enabled the group
o begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
ast stuff that has brought them to this present situation. 
So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
ocus our discussion prior to answering the vision question. ?
Namaste,
ean
Message: 1
ate: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
rom: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> " 
jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> >
ubject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
o: Order Ecumenical Community ?<oe at wedgeblade.
et </mc/compose?to=oe at wedgeblade.net> >
essage-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my 
/mc/compose?to=5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my> >
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Thanks, David.
I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the gestalting 
ight be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be 
illing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be happy 
o play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
????????1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a 
esirable health care system look like? What are components of the desired 
ystem?
????????2. Group the ideas into columns according to=2
0similarity.
????????3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to 
rovide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
????????4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and then 
ettle on the ones with greatest consensus.
Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the 
trategy.
The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual 
eetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes that can 
e used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so 
hile we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group would 
ike to play a role in this on the20listserve.
While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly generate 
ome innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
nows?
John
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ayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
CA - 416-691-2316 - - - Cell ? 647-229-6910
ttp://ica-associates.ca


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