[Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65

Richard Alton dick_alton at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 10 14:26:15 CDT 2009






 Ok, here are my three good reasons why Don
Elliott is a Great Human Being!

 

1)   
Always steps up
to the plate when you need help: he was President of the ICA International
Board when I was the Secretary General- came to every Board meeting and
Conference during his four years tenure. When we needed people to recruit the
ICA International 2000 Denver Conference, Don took off for a month to visit
every ICA in Latin America.
After the Denver Conference was over, Don spent another three weeks doing
Africa ICAs follow-ups where we discovered up close the HIV pandemic. As a Rotarian,
he is still involved in supporting ICA
 Zimbabwe’s
fight against AIDS.


2)   
Has a great sense
of humor- ask him about the India Lion Killer. Nobody with such a sense of humor
can be that bad! Don’s humor is what made it possible for him to be around ICA for 35 years.


3)   
And most
important: when somebody from the list serve implied that I was a racist Don
got on the List serve and said, “No Way!”.

 

NO WAY!

Dick
Alton

 



Richard H.T. Alton
International Consultants and Associates
'building global bridges'
166 N. Humphrey Ave, Apt, 1N
Oak Park, IL 60302
T:1.773.344.7172
richard.alton at gmail.com

Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back 
   Babe Ruth



To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:52:54 -0400
From: dpelliott at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65


Here is the letter referred to in my previous posting.


 




the great conflict 


  


Ganesh [elephant God] the birth day of lord Ganesh who was the son of Shiva and Parvati celebrated with a great joy by all Hindu people in the last week of August and its celebration goes on to first week of September. 


  


Hindu people believe that lord Ganesh gives good rains and good harvest and prosperity in people’s lives. It is observed during the Hindu month of Bhadra. The size of this idol may vary from ¾ of an inch to over 25 feet. On the day of the festival the idol is placed on a raised platform, decorated, for the people to view and pay their homage. The priest usually clad in the red
 silk dhoti and shawl, then invokes life into the idols amid the chanting of mantras. There are 16 ways of paying tribute like coconuts, jaggery, rice, red flowers. 


  


On the last day [on 10th day] all the people shout Ganapati Bappa Morya Pudchaya Varshi Loukariya (O Father come again early next year).   And then they immerse Ganesh in to the river.  During this ten days they do not look at the moon and avoid company of all those who do not believe in god. They do not eat mutton and eggs. They prefer vegetable diet. 


  


This years Ramadan holy 40 days of fasting for Muslims came during the Ganesh Festival. 


  


On 25/08/2009 Hindu people placed on the door post of Miraj Fort market the photo of Abzalkhan who was a great warrior before British came to India. The great warrior Abzalkhan was Muslim. He was killed by Hindu King named Shivaji, Maharaja of Maharashtra India. By putting the portrait of Shivaji Maharaj and Abzalkhan the sentiments of Muslims people were hurts. 


  


Therefore, Muslim people got angry they tore down the photo which was placed on door post of fort of Miraj Market and conflict started. Muslim used attack response in resolving conflict. While fighting Muslims threw stones and one of the hands of the idol Ganesh was broken. Next day Muslim defiled the Ganesh idols by throwing pieces of beef in the Hindu Ganesh temple. In Miraj muslim people are in majority. 


  


The situation is out of control. The Hindus are in majority in remote villages therefore, they broke down a number of mosques and defiled mosqu
es by throwing killed swine into the mosques in the neighboring villages.  Now Muslims also are wild and angry. 


  


The situation is very serious. The breaking of mosques and destroying the property of Muslim people has spread into a number of villages. 


  


Since 06/09/2009 the government of Maharashtra  has  declared  emergency in District Sangli and Miraj. Around 20000 police from the other districts are deputied in the district sangli, Miraj and surrounding villages. We are not allowed to go outside of our houses. All the Government and non-government offices are closed. All the transportation and communication systems are stopped  and paralyzed.  All medical stores and private hospitals are closed. The hospital staff cannot go to do duty. 


All the schools and colleges are closed by order.  Totally 1000 people are arrested and in Police custody. Number of people are hurt and killed in police thathi charge. 


  


Because of this situation poor and sick people are suffering a lot. This situation will continue for another 15 days.  The emergency is declared in District Kolhapur and Satara. The ripples of this situation are found in Mumbai also. 


  


I knew the situation will go from bad to worse. Therefore on 01/09/2009 five days in advance before the emergency declared I preserved food commodities in the store room of Home of Hope both in Bamnoli village as well as in Digraj for about three months in advance. So 
that all our children will be safe. 


  


Today is 8/09/ 2009 Rapid police force is deployed in Sagali. In this letter I humbly and sincerely request you please pray for this situation. So that Lord Jesus Christ will give wisdom and knowledge and understanding to the Government authorities who make decision and well as both Hindu and Muslim religious leaders to resolve this conflict. So that there will be peace and harmony. 


  


Rev. Timothy Jalam 


 



 






 


Don Elliott

9400 E Iliff Ave #361

Denver, CO 80231

303 695 4688 (H), 303 378 9175 (C)




-----Original Message-----

From: oe-request at wedgeblade.net

To: oe at wedgeblade.net

Sent:=2
0Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:35 pm

Subject: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65





Send OE mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Health Care - engagement (Jean Watts)
   2. Health Care - engagement (Jean Watts)
   3. Re: ENGAGEMENT (Don Elliott)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:35:46 -0500
From: "Jean Watts" <jeanwatts at cox.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - engagement
To: <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Cc: jeanwatts at cox.net
Message-ID: <3134F3613BB142ACBFF4C2DAD3CDB916 at JEANSLAPTOP>
Content-Type: te
xt/plain;   charset="us-ascii"


Jim, I've never uncovered underlying assumptions using the workshop process.
I have never been trying to get a consensus at this point but only wanted to
establish the most appropriate environment/context for the visioning
process.  I've used either a modified form of the paradigm shift framework
or the spiral dynamics framework to uncover these underlying assumptions.
While participating in the process itself somehow, the 'context' and
boundaries of the content, (e.g. what are we pointing to with the verbal
symbol 'health care?' gets clarified so everyone is on the same page.  

Thus, this is 'the product' and the next step is the vision question and the
strategic planning process.

When using the paradigm shift framework, I ask questions like:
What practices, actions, approaches, policies etc. once worked but have now
disappeared, are no longer ineffective, or no longer do?

What practices, actions, approaches are presently standard operating
procedures or have been firmly established within this field or present
system?

What are innovative or new practices, actions, approaches that are being
tried or picking up momentum and acceptance? 

What are creative ideas, never-tried approaches and practices that you think
just might work or are ideas beginning to emerge within this sector?

Once these have been listed, (they are already clustered under their
question using titles like Dying, Established, Emerging, Boundary), I ask0D
the group to list the underlying assumptions and beliefs under each cluster.

Reflections questions on the shifts, trends, etc. then follows.  What is
important is that the group identifies what beliefs, values, or assumptions
manifested the various expressions which brought them to this present
situation.

Thus far, I have only used the spiral dynamic framework with a group of
academics or highly educated professionals. And so, it has been acceptable
to present the group with the values and assumptions already clustered into
Memes with their corresponding healthy and unhealthy expressions and ask the
group to identify where within their sector, field, or group they see each
taking place. Reflective questions then are asked on where they see people
open or ready to change and exactly where they (since they have been those
who have already taken responsibility for the change) are open or in the
process of changing. 

To date, neither of these facilitation processes created a polarized debate
or discussion between the participants nor did it result in 'name calling'
or 'bad mouthing.'

I think that the first process would probably be easier, therefore quicker,
but the second one would set the context for a far more comprehensive vision
and plan. 

However, one major differences in either case is that the group of
participants [which is probably only a small number of those on this list
serve - my assumption :)] that will be participating may not i
n the position
to implement their vision so any plan we come up with will be one that only
involves how we might influence those who are developing and implementing
it. So this exercise might tend to be experienced as rather abstract.  

I think we might need to find out how many of the people on this list serve
are both interested in and have time to participate first. And then see
which process these individuals are most comfortable with. 

This health care issue is not just a national one but a global one. But as
far as health care within the United States, the present consensus seems to
be to give the responsibility of decision making to our elected political
figures who most of who have never seen or experienced the kind of
facilitation processes we, as the Order helped develop. They use a very
different process to come up with their final decisions. So, I am asking
myself, why is this particular group even willing to take this vision
process on? Why even am I willing to? Why are you willing to?
Jean 

-----Original Message-----
From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of oe-request at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:31 AM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 63

Send OE mailing list submissions to
    oe at wedgeblade.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Health Care - ENGAGEMENT (James Wiegel)
   2. Re: Health Care - ENGAGEMENT (David & Lin Zahrt)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


So, what would the workshop question be, Jean?

"What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?"? or, 
"What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we see in people related to
this topic?" or, 
"What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present that
make this topic so controversial?"

Do you get diametrically opposed ones?? do you organize them by topic (all
these are assumptions about the role of government) or by similar assumption
or belief?

What is next?? What do you do with the product?

I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if
people wanted to contribute and once I get ba
ck home (after the 24th) would
help with organizing, etc.

Jim



Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun.  G. K. Chesterton



Jim Wiegel

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401

+1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277

   jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:

From: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM

I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
communities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that uncovered
the group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their practical
vision.? It appeared that it was at this level where the "real" conflict of
perspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was rooted.


JWM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting out
our self understanding."? Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
underlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.? One of the ways these are
"acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and solutions
to the issues within the content being discussed. 

These underlying belie
fs, assumptions, and values are always in a state of
movement or evolution.? So, by beginning at this point, it enabled the group
to begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
past stuff that has brought them to this present situation. 

So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
focus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.? 

Namaste,
Jean

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
From: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
To: Order Ecumenical Community? <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Thanks, David.

I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the gestalting 
might be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be 
willing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be happy 
to play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
? ? ? ???1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a 
desirable health care system look like? What are components of the desired 
system?
? ? ? ???2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
? ? ? ???3. Post the columns on the 
listserve, and invite the group to 
provide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
? ? ? ???4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and then 
settle on the ones with greatest consensus.

Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the 
strategy.

The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual 
meetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes that can 
be used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so 
while we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group would 
like to play a role in this on the listserve.

While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly generate 
some innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
knows?

John

**********************************


_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net



      
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:31:01 +0100
From: David & Lin Zahrt20<chbnb at netins.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>, Dialogue ICA
    <Dialogue at wedgeblade.net>
Message-ID: <CA893605-65DF-4A71-AB78-D7795E89BE03 at netins.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
    DelSp="yes"

Good Jeanie,

You're ready to start it? What's the first question? How do we proceed?
Lets have this insight open the door rather than close it!

David Z
On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Watts wrote:

I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
communities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that  
uncovered
the group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their  
practical
vision.  It appeared that it was at this level where the "real"  
conflict of
perspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was  
rooted.


JWM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of  
acting out
our self understanding."  Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
underlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.  One of the ways these are
"acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and  
solutions
to the issues within the content being discussed.

These underlying beliefs, assumptions,
 and values are always in a  
state of
movement or evolution.  So, by beginning at this point, it enabled  
the group
to begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on  
the
past stuff that has brought them to this present situation.

So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
focus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.

Namaste,
Jean

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
From: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Thanks, David.

I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the  
gestalting
might be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be
willing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be  
happy
to play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
          1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a
desirable health care system look like? What are components of the  
desired
system?
          2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
  
        3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to
provide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
          4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week)  
and then
settle on the ones with greatest consensus.

Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the
strategy.

The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual
meetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes  
that can
be used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to  
learn, so
while we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group  
would
like to play a role in this on the listserve.

While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly  
generate
some innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
knows?

John

**********************************


_______________________________________________
OE mailing list
OE at wedgeblade.net
http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net

David & Lin Zahrt
22133 Larpenteur Rd
Turin, IA 51040
-- Doorway to the Loess Hills 
http://www.country-homestead.com
Where a change of pace is as good as a vacation, and a sense of place  
is soothing to the soul.

  <chbnb at netins.net>

Skype <loesshills>





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End of OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 63
**********************************




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:01:35 -0500
From: "Jean Watts" <jeanwatts at cox.net>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - engagement
To: <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Message-ID: <9B9B0A9E4A2F4351AD975DA8BACBA96D at JEANSLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"


Wayne,
I went to the website but couldn't get a feel as to how this tool works.
But I'ld be willing to pursue it. Will it work for either of the processes I
suggested to Jim?  
Jean

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:00:36 -0400
From: Wayne  Nelson <wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
To: Colleague Dialogue <d
ialogue at wedgeblade.net>,   Order Ecumenical
    Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>,  Jo Nelson
<jnelson at ica-associates.ca>
Message-ID: <C6CBDBC4.69DF%wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


We at ICA in Canada have a license for a tool called ?Elluminate.?  It?s an
online tool in which we can do an entire workshop as well as other things.
We?re just learning to use it. We?ve done a couple of workshops and other
things with it.  Our intention is to use it in client work. Without
question, it will pay its way. With shrinking budgets and travel fears
related to flu etc, this will hopefully position us to do substantial work
in the virtual environment.

You can try it out by going to http://elluminate.com.  The trial version
only allows 3 people, so you and 2 others can get a feel for it. That?s what
Jo and I and John Miller did. Jo set it up and we did a whole little
workshop. Blew our minds entirely.

Our version allows us to include up to 100 people. That would be far too
many for this kind of use.  My guess is that a group of 15 - 20 would be
pretty large, but not impossible. Because the software includes a
whiteboard. Ideas can be written on ?cards? and moved around on the board.
Because of the size of the whiteboard, I?d guess that
 it can easily handle
40 some ideas ? not many more. It has built in VIOP; so no need for a
separate phone connection.

Participants need a high speed connection and a way to handle sound - like
the $10 headphones with a mic  you?d use for a Skype call.

We could host a workshop and work with someone to facilitate it.  We need
the practice and it would be cool to share this application with you. We?ve
been dreamining of an online ToP workshop since the 80?s; so this is a
little like finding the lost chord.

It works best when there is one person who is the facilitator and another
who handles the technology ? flicking switches behind the curtain like the
wizard of Oz - - - without the hokusy-pokusy stuff.  Since it?s  your idea,
you?d need to decide who would be the facilitator. We?ll work with that
person to make the session happen.

A workshop like this would really requires at least 2 sessions.

In the first session the participants get connected and familiar with the
technology. That part takes about 45 minutes to an hour.  It?s necessary. If
it?s not done in a separate session, it will take up the first 40 ? 60
minutes of the initial meeting. It?s a natural, necessary part of this kind
of online collaboration. If you?re going to be a part of the workshop, you
have to do the orientation. That?s it.

This session could include the contexting, instructions and the initial
brainstorm. My guess is that20part would take another hour. That could be
done in another way as well. We have a tool we could use to collect ideas
that can take place asynchronously.

In the second session the group can do the gestalting, naming and reflection
conversation. That?s probably an hour and a half or 2 hours.

Let me know if you?d like to pursue this.

\\/

"James Wiegel"  wrote:

> So, what would the workshop question be, Jean?
> 
> "What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?"  or,
> "What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we see in people related
to
> this topic?" or, 
> "What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present
that
> make this topic so controversial?"
> 
> Do you get diametrically opposed ones?  do you organize them by topic (all
> these are assumptions about the role of government) or by similar
assumption
> or belief?
> 
> What is next?  What do you do with the product?
> 
> I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if
> people wanted to contribute and once I get back home (after the 24th)
would
> help with organizing, etc.
> 
> Jim
> 
> Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun.  G. K. Chesterton
> 
> Jim Wiegel
> 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
> +1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277
>  jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com
> 
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> From: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
>> Subject: [Oe List ...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
>> To: oe at wedgeblade.net
>> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM
>> 
>> I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
>> communities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that
uncovered
>> the group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their
practical
>> vision.  It appeared that it was at this level where the "real" conflict
of
>> perspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was
rooted.
>> 
>> 
>> JWM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting
out
>> our self understanding."  Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
>> underlying assumptions, beliefs, and values.  One of the ways these are
>> "acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and
solutions
>> to the issues within the content being discussed.
>> 
>> These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a state
of
>> movement or evolution.  So, by beginning at t
his point, it enabled the
group
>> to begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
>> past stuff that has brought them to this present situation.
>> 
>> So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
>> focus our discussion prior to answering the vision question.
>> 
>> Namaste,
>> Jean
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
>> From: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> "
>> <jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> >
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
>> To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net
>> </mc/compose?to=oe at wedgeblade.net> >
>> Message-ID: <5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my
>> </mc/compose?to=5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
>> 
>> Thanks, David.
>> 
>> I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the
gestalting
>> might be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be

>> willing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be
happy
>> to play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
>>          1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a
>> desirable health care system look like? What are components of the
desired
>> system?
>>          2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
>>          3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to
>> provide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
>>          4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and
then
>> settle on the ones with greatest consensus.
>> 
>> Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the
>> strategy.
>> 
>> The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual
>> meetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes that
can
>> be used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so
>> while we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group
would
>> like to play a role in this on the listserve.
>> 
>> While this may be a tedious process for us, it may just possibly generate
>> some innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
>> knows?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>
; **********************************
*********************************




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:16:38 -0400
From: Don Elliott <dpelliott at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] ENGAGEMENT
To: dialogue at wedgeblade.net, oe at wedgeblade.net,
    jnelson at ica-associates.ca
Message-ID: <8CBFEBF41EEAF9F-2B64-2783C at webmail-m064.sysops.aol.com>
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Wayne,



Sounds great.? Using some non-controversial, or even mythical issue to learn the 
technology would be like playing a game
to get used to the system, then maybe the first phase of an actual workshop to 
get people thinking about how best to

engage in the real workshop.? As to the use of the product, ICA-USA would 
appreciate a workshop on how to strengthen

the organization and become useful servants in these tumultuous times.? I 
suspect the health care issue, though interesting,

will largely be resolved by the time we get this project underway.? I would 
rather see us tackle an issue?where we know we

caqn make a real contribution.?



If you think we have a polarized society, see attached letter from a friend, a 
minister of the Church of North India, in Maharastra

where Jim Mathews worked for
 many years, and where Maliwada and Chikle are 
located.? I have gone every year, for 15 years, to 

Wanless Mission Hospital in Miraj to work with the heart surgeon there.? Timothy 
has started orphanages, one for boys, one for girls, 

for HIV/AIDS orphans, from the red light districts?of Miraj and Sangli.? A 
hospice for the sex workers dying of AIDS is under 

construction adjacent the orphanage for girls.? My daughter, Cynthia, who spent 
eight months in Maliwada when she was 17, went to

Miraj with me in January and helped plan the hospice facility.? Cynthia?works 
as?a hospice nurse in Santa Cruz, CA.


?

Don Elliott0A9400 E Iliff Ave #361
Denver, CO 80231
303 695 4688 (H), 303 378 9175 (C)


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Nelson <wnelson at ica-associates.ca>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community 
<oe at wedgeblade.net>; Jo Nelson <jnelson at ica-associates.ca>
Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 8:00 am
Subject: [Dialogue] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT



We at ICA in Canada have a license for a tool called ?Elluminate.? ?It?s an 
online tool in which we can do an entire workshop as well as other things. We?re 
just learning to use it. We?ve done a couple of workshops and other things with 
it. ?Our intention is to use i
t in client work. Without question, it will pay 
its way. With shrinking budgets and travel fears related to flu etc, this will 
hopefully position us to do substantial work in the virtual environment.

You can try it out by going to http://elluminate.com. ?The trial version only 
allows 3 people, so you and 2 others can get a feel for it. That?s what Jo and I 
and John Miller did. Jo set it up and we did a whole little workshop. Blew our 
minds entirely. 

Our version allows us to include up to 100 people. That would be far too many 
for this kind of use. ?My guess is that a group of 15 - 20 would be pretty 
large, but not impossible. Because the software includes a whiteboard. Ideas can 
be written on ?cards? and moved around on the board. ?Because of the size of the 
whiteboard, I?d guess that it20can easily handle 40 some ideas ? not many more. 
It has built in VIOP; so no need for a separate phone connection.

Participants need a high speed connection and a way to handle sound - like the 
$10 headphones with a mic ?you?d use for a Skype call.

We could host a workshop and work with someone to facilitate it. ?We need the 
practice and it would be cool to share this application with you. We?ve been 
dreamining of an online ToP workshop since the 80?s; so this is a little like 
finding the lost chord. 

It works best when there is one perso
n who is the facilitator and another who 
handles the technology ? flicking switches behind the curtain like the wizard of 
Oz - - - without the hokusy-pokusy stuff. ?Since it?s ?your idea, you?d need to 
decide who would be the facilitator. We?ll work with that person to make the 
session happen. 

A workshop like this would really requires at least 2 sessions.

In the first session the participants get connected and familiar with the 
technology. That part takes about 45 minutes to an hour. ?It?s necessary. If 
it?s not done in a separate session, it will take up the first 40 ? 60 minutes 
of the initial meeting. It?s a natural, necessary part of this kind of online 
collaboration. If you?re going to be a part of the workshop, you have to do the 
orientation. That?s it. 

This session could include the contexting, instructions and the i
nitial brainstorm. My guess is that part would take another hour. That could be 
done in another way as well. We have a tool we could use to collect ideas that 
can take place asynchronously.

In the second session the group can do the gestalting, naming and reflection 
conversation. That?s probably an hour and a half or 2 hours.

Let me know if you?d like to pursue this.

\\/

"James Wiegel" ?wrote:


So, what would the workshop question be, Jean?

"What are our underlying assumptions and beliefs related to xxxx?" ?or, 
"What are the underlying assumptio
ns and beliefs we see in people related to 
this topic?" or, 
"What are the underlying assumptions and beliefs we suspect are present that 
make this topic so controversial?"

Do you get diametrically opposed ones? ?do you organize them by topic (all these 
are assumptions about the role of government) or by similar assumption or 
belief?

What is next? ?What do you do with the product?

I have a survey monkey account and would be happy to put up something if people 
wanted to contribute and once I get back home (after the 24th) would help with 
organizing, etc.

Jim

Coincidence is the spiritual equivalent of a pun. ?G. K. Chesterton

Jim Wiegel
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 ?623-936-8671 ??+1 ?623-363-3277
?jfwiegel at yahoo.com ??www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net> wrote:


From: Jean Watts <jeanwatts at cox.net>
Subject: [Oe List20...] Health Care - ENGAGEMENT
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 9:51 AM

I found when facilitating groups focused on "health care" or "healthy
communities" that it was necessary to begin with a workshop that uncovered
the group's underlying assumptions and beliefs rather than their practical
vision. ?It appeared that it was 
at this level where the "real" conflict of
perspective on the particular subject or content being discussed was rooted.


JWM use to say frequently that "We are always in the process of acting out
our self understanding." ?Our "self understanding" is, in reality, these
underlying assumptions, beliefs, and values. ?One of the ways these are
"acted out' is in the particular way we articulate our vision and solutions
to the issues within the content being discussed. 

These underlying beliefs, assumptions, and values are always in a state of
movement or evolution. ?So, by beginning at this point, it enabled the group
to begin with the present moment or situation rather than focusing on the
past stuff that has brought them to this present situation. 

So, I think that this is where we as a group of caring individuals might
focus our discussion prior to answering the vision question. ?

Namaste,
Jean

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:17:36 +0800
From: "jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> " 
<jlepps at pc.jaring.my </mc/compose?to=jlepps at pc.jaring.my> >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Health Care--ENGAGEMENT!
To: Order Ecumenical Community ?<oe at wedgeblade.
net </mc/compose?to=oe at wedgeblade.net> >
Message-ID: <5.2.0.5
.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my 
</mc/compose?to=5.2.0.5.0.20090905110415.029c08f0 at mbox.jaring.my> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Thanks, David.

I believe this can be facilitated over the listserve, though the gestalting 
might be less participative than usual. Is there someone(s) who would be 
willing to take on this task? I'm up to here right now, but would be happy 
to play a second role. Seems to me the job will be:
?????????1. solicit responses to the question of vision: What would a 
desirable health care system look like? What are components of the desired 
system?
?????????2. Group the ideas into columns according to similarity.
?????????3. Post the columns on the listserve, and invite the group to 
provide 3-4-word names (We want to see _____)
?????????4. Invite a discussion of the names (perhaps for a week) and then 
settle on the ones with greatest consensus.

Move on to the contradictions and follow the same process; then to the 
strategy.

The ToP network has a task force working on ways to facilitate virtual 
meetings, and there are multiple software and web-based programmes that can 
be used. Unfortunately most charge a fee and are complicated to learn, so 
while we probably can't use them here, maybe someone from that group would 
like to play a role in this on the20listserve.

While this may be a tedious process for us,20it may just possibly generate 
some innovative ideas that are not yet in the national discussion. Who
knows?

John

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< > ?< > ?< > ?< > ?< > 
Wayne Nelson - ICA Associates Inc
ICA - 416-691-2316 - - - Cell ? 647-229-6910
http://ica-associates.ca




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