[Oe List ...] FW: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65

[Marianna Bailey]

I couldn't agree more!  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Schlesinger 
  To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' 
  Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65


  The problem of a 'useful representation of facts' is that ideology trumps facts.  The suspicions that the current federal bills are a 'camel's nose' for socialism, rampant or otherwise, for 'back dooring' care for undocumented immigrants, or panels judging the worth of a person aren't based on specific facts.  They're based on ideological presuppositions.  Any attempt to argue on a factual basis means that the argument itself is invalid because it is assumed to have chosen facts that don't reflect the ideology.  'Facts' are assumed to be being used to twist reality rather than reflecting it.  

   

  'Action will remove the doubt that theory cannot solve.'  The only way through this impasse is through a rather political messy process that is yet preferable to violence.  The side supporting the models represented in legislation will either succeed or fail in passing them.  If they fail, doubts will remain.  If they succeed, we will then know the results of implementing them.  You pays your money and you takes your pick.

   

  My pick - based on my experience for almost 20 years in indigent health care - is for the proposals as currently formulated as a feasible first step.  I think we're better off with something in place on the order of social security, Medicaid and Medicare that we can then tweak than we are with no action.  If the 'conservatives' wanted the changes they now proclaim as an alternative, they certainly had plenty of time to enact them. 

   

  Time to move on this stuff.

   

  Bill Schlesinger
  Project Vida
  3607 Rivera Ave
  El Paso, TX 79905
  (915) 533-7057 x 207
  (915) 490-6148 mobile
  (915) 533-7158 fax
  bschlesinger.pv at tachc.org
  www.projectvidaelpaso.org

   


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  From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of PSchrijnen at aol.com
  Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:20 AM
  To: oe at wedgeblade.net
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: OE Digest, Vol 65, Issue 65

   

  I am a little bothered about people communicating some of their opinions about what is wrong with others or what is right about them as a way to include or exclude their arguments. On that basis, no one would ever listen to me if they knew all the mistakes I had made, all the wrong judgements I had ever expressed on school boards, community meetings, work engagements etc.  On that basis, we would still have all Germans above a certain age in jail, or all Irish, or all British, or all colonialists, or Southeners, or all Palestinians etc, etc. Having just returned from South Africa I feel refreshed by their  wisdom. Reconciliation, forgiveness is a fact of life. Today is a new day is a fact of life. 

   

  The move towards getting useful representations of facts helps. Difficult to do in this topic. And important. So, who has the email addresses of the Order youth medics. What do Dr Bob and Dr Ken think?

   

  Maybe that will help. 

   

  Paul

   

  PS I just got back from the hospital for some free blood tests. I have more than 20% chance of getting a heart attack so my blood is being checked regularly. 



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