[Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

Thu Feb 25 06:36:03 CST 2010

Marilyn,

These are excellent points and add much clarity to our dialogue.

Thanks,
Randy

--- On Wed, 2/24/10, marilyncrocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com> wrote:

From: marilyncrocker <marilyncrocker at juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:57 PM

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Hi Marshall, Charles, Randy, Terry, et al,

I just wanted to weigh in on this provocative discussion.  Yes, the academic, publishing, intellectual properties contexts have indeed shifted in the 20 plus years since the 1988 "Diaspora."

I was always of the understanding of Charles and Jeanette, that all our constructs were created and offered to all.

However, when I began to work with folks in academe, specifically the National Association of State Directors of Special Education (NASDE), and suggested the "triangles" as the conceptual framework for Education Accountability -- and then we did the work of thinking through the dynamics of "creates, limits, sustains" for each relationship -- my clients wanted to publish their version of the triangles, and requested the origin of the conceptual model, which I offered as the Ecumenical Institute.  

This original work led to three Wingspread Conferences, all based on the "triangle" as our conceptual framework, but taken down to lower levels re: implementation  of free and appropriate education for all students with disabilities and their families.  Again, reference was given in published documents to the EI for the conceptual framework.

As a consultant who brought with me, like skin, "all our screens" in doing my work, I would have been less concerned about documenting references, but the rest of the world works differently.  I needed to learn that it was important to document "what I said worked, and how, and why. and according to whom!"  Our OE mode of research was different, more organic, deeply experiential, less dependent upon measurable data, more informed by rich, qualitative input, triangulated multiple times, across a myriad of cultures.

I am comfortable walking the razor's edge -- if there is actually one:  bowing to those who require footnotes and bibliographical entries re: all our vast corporate OE/ICA/EI wisdom ; or,  just sharing wisdom, life experience, lessons learned, shaped around concepts like the Bug, the Pentagon, the 144s, the SP triangles, etc.

I'm guessing, that if someone decided to claim our work as their own,  and prevent any of us or others from ever using it again, we might rise up as a mighty force and do as the common folks of 36 counties in Massachusetts did in pre-revolutionary times when they stood over against the "Intolerable Acts" and say absolutely "NO!"

And with good reason.

Peace and love to you, my dear colleagues,

Marilyn

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:47:43 -0800 (PST) "W. J." <synergi at yahoo.com> writes:

In order to control or authorize use of intellectual property, you have first to be able to claim copyright. That's why we printed a (possibly defective) copyright notice on the Social Process Triangles in 1971. This gives notice of ICA's intent to actually submit copyright documents to the Library of Congress (which of course we never did--nor does almost anyone else except Hollywood) and to defend against copyright violations, including false authorship claims from others and unauthorized changes/usage, by threatening or engaging in a civil lawsuit--which we have never needed to do.
Most copyright violation lawsuits seem to be over 'piracy' or unauthorized reproduction of goods worth multimillions of dollars, or the creation of a black market which deprives copyright owners of significant unrealized income.
Strangely, the ICA-USA's previous board of directors (before the recent 'regime change' or mass departure of the recently dominant faction) seemed to be obsessed with defending their imagined 'intellectual property rights' from unauthorized use--by us! Smelled to me like a corporatist mindset had taken over the board. Thankfully they're gone. Maybe the new board would like to clarify their new stance.

Marshall

Charles, indeed we 'ripped off' a lot of theologians and other authors in the old days, but one could make the point that in popularizing their work we gave those guys a lot of free publicity and thus increased their book sales. Tillich, Boulding, cummings, Hesse et al should be grateful.
Sometimes we played by the rules. I got a letter signed by Aaron Copeland giving us his permission to use 'Fanfare for the Common Man' without paying a licensing fee. 

From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 5:07:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

Charles,

I agree with everything you say.  However, it may be that the ICA needs to assure that someone other than the ICA does not claim proprietary rights to the material and then try to restrict the right of all of us to use it.  ICA's intent then would be to protect if for our use rather than to prohibit if from being used by others.

Randy

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Charles or Doris Hahn <cdhahn at flash.net> wrote:

From: Charles or Doris Hahn <cdhahn at flash.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 9:08 PM

#yiv371636108 #yiv1731481007 DIV {
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I find this chatter really interesting.  When we were working on all those projects, we just assumed that the products, i.e. the Social Process Triangles, the New Religious Mode, etc. belonged to the world.  How many papers or chapters of books did we use in our courses without secureing permission, and giving only the authors name.  It seems to me that we should be generous enough to ask only that the The Institute of Cultural Affairs be mentioned or credited.  I cannot believe that we would stick to the letter of the law on getting permission and giving total copyright documentation.  The stuff is yours and mine, and it belongs to humankind.
Charles Hahn

From: Wilson Priscilla <Pris at TeamTechPress.com>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 5:06:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

I used the triangles in The Facilitative Way...giving credit to the international research of the Institute of Cultural Affairs. Jenkins have a whole book on the triangles titled The Social Process Triangles. We checked with Lyn Edwards before printing The Facilitative Way and she gave her "permission." 
So many people worked on creating those...they have to be "corporate" property. 

When we worked on The Facilitative Way we changed some titles, but kept the dynamics the same. We've been told that our chapter on the triangles is very helpful. We listened to clients when working on titles.
Priscilla Wilson

On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Herman Greene wrote:

Is their any problem in using the social process triangles? Is anyone claiming a copyright to the triangles?

Thanks,

Herman

_____________________________________________
Herman F. Greene, Esq.
Greene Law, PLLC
2516 Winningham Drive
Chapel Hill,  NC  27516
919-624-0579 (ph)
919-942-4358 (f)
Skype: hgreene-nc
hgreene at greenelawnc.com
www.greenelawnc.com

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