[Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

Sun Feb 28 14:42:21 CST 2010

Jim and all,

I went to the YouTube link you suggested and saw the John Pilgen's speech about "Obama and the Empire" and the "hidden government" but it was not clear what the connection was to IP rights or the questions posed. Your "facilitation questions" are good questions but I find them to be a remarkable response to the series of questions posed and not an answer to any of them.. 

The questions put forth to all of us, myself included, arose from the dialogue thread on IP rights. In fact, you said, "I just think all the people who have made more than $150,000 using the triangles should at least report that so we know."  Know what?  Why?

So, let me clearly state the 10 questions raised that need to be answered on the subject of IP rights. 

        1. Why is the IP rights question so important?
        2. What is the point (or value) of getting credit for something, like the Social Process Triangles for example?
        3. Why would we want to object to a person trying to awaken consciousness using any "property" we own?
        4. What is being done by us now that is in any way at risk by anyone using anything we own?
        5. What are we doing with the Social Process Triangles now? (by the way, how many of us can explain them?)
        6. Does anyone (the market), other than ourselves, really want these intellectual properties(product)?
        7. Have we not been trying to give these properties away for 50 years?
        8. Why Is this matter of intellectual property?
        9. Why is it so important to get credit for these intellectual properties?
       10. Are there more important, urgent matters for us?

The statements made were:

        1.   I can assure you that everything we think we own, or claim, is folly in the hands of people without a Movemental                  Consciousness (if Movemental Consciousness is unclear simply drop the word "Movemental"), and everyone                                of us has seen the reality of what I am saying.
        2.   Unless a person has such consciousness the event is a silly, abstract, often boring exercise.
        3.   The intelletual properties are a product of consciousness, not the other way around.
        4.   It is not our intellectual property that create consciousness, but conscious people using methods that awaken                             consciousness.
        5.  Conscious people using our intellectual property expand the number of conscious people and they might get more done                  than we have thus far.

Here are 4 more questions to add:

        1.    If we think consciousness is awakened by using our intellectual properties, what is our justification for wanting to "own"                   them, or get credit for them, or control them?
        2.    Are we trying to justify our past by wanting to be recognized for our past accomplishments?
        3    Why don't we try giving our intellectual properties away to the entire world rather than huddling them under our wing?
        4.    Is money at the base of our concern over intellectual property rights?

Just asking....and the answers are not "facilitation questions" directed back, no matter how good the questions may be.

I just want to say, that for my part, our work is not over.  We had to go through everything we went through to be here in a position to actually begin our work for which that past has prepared us. Only now has the term "ECUMENICAL" become that reality upon which the future of the planet depends. It is now time for THE ECUMENICAL INSTITUTE: comprehensive global care and a profound religious mode that quickens and awakens every traditional mode.  I'm serious about the questions.

Bill 

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James Wiegel 
  To: Order Ecumenical Community 
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

  So, Bill, my grand daughter sent me a link (see below) that raises the question of "Where did the movements go?"  Talk some more about that "movemental consciousness" you mentioned.  What are the descriptors?  How did it get developed in you?  How might it be developed in others today?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXL998q7skI.. 

  Jim

  "If you really want to succeed, then you have to have the big heart, heroic will, tenacity, courage, and commitment to fearlessly engage with the evolutionary process until something profound, mysterious, and extraordinary happens that cannot be undone." Andrew Cohen

  Jim Wiegel
  401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
  +1 623-936-8671 +1 623-363-3277
  jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Bill Parker <bparker175 at cox.net>
  To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
  Sent: Fri, February 26, 2010 9:44:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

  Paula makes a lot of sense when she says "We can not take it back." 

  It really is not clear why this seems so important to so many people. What is the point of EI/ICA or OE, for that matter, being given credit for ....what? The Social Process Triangles?  Methods that we may have created or clearly took from other sources? I can assure you that everything we think we own, or claim, is folly in the hands of people without a Movemental Consciousness, and every one of us has seen the reality of what I am saying. 

  Unless the person utilizing such "properties" has a Movemental Consciousness, or a Revolutionary Consciousness, or at the very least, possess a notion that what they are doing is changing the world on behalf of all people, the event is a silly, abstract, often boring exercise. The "properties" are a product of this consciousness, not the other way around. No, it is not the methods that create the consciousness but rather the Movemental Consciousness in the person utilizing the methods that make the methods work.

  Further, if one using the "properties" has a Movemental Consciousness, then why would anyone object to that? They might even get more done than we have thus far.

  What is being done by this community that is in anyway at risk by other people using whatever we "own"? Social Process Triangles?? Let me ask, what are we doing with the Social Process Triangles?  I understand the concern Randy Williams raised about somehow losing the rights to our own creation. However, I am not convince we could give these "properties" away, even if we tried. Isn't that what we have been doing for 50 years? 

  Is this really an important matter, and if so, isn't there another matter, or two, far more urgent for us to be about? .....just asking.

  Bill Parker
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Paula Philbrook 
    To: Order Ecumenical Community 
    Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:00 PM
    Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] IP rights to Social Process Triangles

    ALL:
    We can not take it back.

    When my sister, Deana Henry and her husband, Kenneth were working on their PHD's at Texas A&M, they encounter the Social Process Triangles in a Community Development Class. They also recognized a kindred spirit.

    The professor was a visiting professor from Australia. He had never directly encountered EI/ICA.  He had gained his knowledge of the triangles from a fellow colleague working with the Aboriginal community. 

    I was involved in discussions with Sidley & Austin intellectual property specialists.  Establishing copyrights and ownerships is not a straight-line.  The corporate mode, the voluntary nature of OE members, the years of use without trademarks or action, etc contribute mud to any legal discussion.  

    My hope is that EI/ICA get the credit in some way-each and everytime.

    Paula

    Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony.
       Mahatma Gandhi

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